[Discussion] What is the unforgivable sin against the Holy Spirit?

In this comment, Adrian suggested that we’d discuss this topic: What is the unforgivable sin against the Holy Spirit?
So let ‘er rip, Adrian. And anyone else is welcome to join in.
Jeff

11 thoughts on “[Discussion] What is the unforgivable sin against the Holy Spirit?

  1. Hi Jeff and all others,
    This has always been an apparently open and closed discussion ( The ultimate unpardonable sin ) however i would like the chance ( along with others ) to completely study the unpardonable sin.
    Being mentioned in only apparently the following scriptures
    starting with the Matthew account ;
    Matthew 12:31-37 (New American Standard Bible)
    31″(A)Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
    32″(B)Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in (C)this age or in the age to come.
    Words Reveal Character
    33″Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for (D)the tree is known by its fruit.
    34″(E)You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? (F)For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart.
    35″(G)The good man brings out of his good treasure what is good; and the evil man brings out of his evil treasure what is evil.
    36″But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in (H)the day of judgment.
    37″For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”
    Please note I have included the remaining verses as they are particular to the study, all the verses are contextually speaking of “WORDS” and your judgement by them!
    As we know these thoughts are reiterated in Mark 3:23-30, Where again the conversation all points towards the Pharisees / Saducees ascribing Jesus works to the power of Satan ( or beelzebul / beelzebub – the demon of demons ) . Jesus is very sharp and to the point making complete idiocy of their accusations, Explaining that if He ( Jesus ) casts out demons by the power of demons ( Satan ) then He ( Jesus ) is working against His own kingdom which will therefore fall / collapse ( Have an end ). So we have the pharisees saying what is good ( Jesus ) is evil, therefore attributing the works of GOD to Satan.
    Now we come to the scripture that seems to have been missed ( possibly avoided ) by many so called Christians and their leaders. Lukes Gospel sees our Lord sternly speaking of another type of sin against the spirit ;
    firstly please examone that Luke did not connect the unpardonable sin with this account;
    14(A)And He was casting out a demon, and it was mute; when the demon had gone out, the mute man spoke; and the crowds were amazed.
    15But some of them said, “He casts out demons (B)by (C)Beelzebul, the ruler of the demons.”
    16Others, to test Him, (D)were demanding of Him a sign from heaven.
    17(E)But He knew their thoughts and said to them, “Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and a house divided against itself falls.
    18″If (F)Satan also is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? For you say that I cast out demons by (G)Beelzebul.
    19″And if I by (H)Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? So they will be your judges.
    20″But if I cast out demons by the (I)finger of God, then (J)the kingdom of God has come upon you.
    21″When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.
    22″But when someone stronger than he attacks him and overpowers him, he takes away from him all his armor on which he had relied and distributes his plunder.
    23″(K)He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me, scatters.
    24″(L)When the unclean spirit goes out of a man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and not finding any, it says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’
    25″And when it comes, it finds it swept and put in order.
    26″Then it goes and takes along seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first.”
    Let us examine where the unpardonable sin falls in Luke gospel,
    8″And I say to you, everyone who (A)confesses Me before men, the Son of Man will confess him also before the angels of God;
    9but (B)he who denies Me before men will be denied (C)before the angels of God.
    10″(D)And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him.
    11″When they bring you before (E)the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not (F)worry about how or what you are to speak in your defense, or what you are to say;
    12for (G)the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.”
    Here again Jesus admonition is concerning words of confession or denial, Ultimately this whole portion of scripture is concerned with faithfulness and has nothing to do with accusing Jesus ( or the Holy spirit ) of working His/ Their works by the power of Satan. Please note the first two scriptures were aimed at The pharisees however however our last portion of scripture ties fearing men rather than GOD and denying the power of God with this fearful sin.
    So also mat we add, Jesus was showing it is possible to fall away from GOD in times of extreme fear but there is no need to as the power of the Holy Spirit can save us if we fully rely on Him.
    This small study was obviously not exhaustive and i have more to add, please feel free to voice your opinion but make sure it is backed up by scripture ( in context ) as i and others ( i am sure ) dont want this to turn into a battlefield but moreso of a learning experience to heighten our respect and relationship with our wonderful Lord.
    May GOD bless you all in the name of JESUS
    Brother Adrian

  2. Jeff Fenske

    Adrian,
    Thanks for your postings!!
    Have you considered this text regarding this topic?

    Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the teaching of the first principles of Christ, let us press on to perfection–not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works, of faith toward God, 2 of the teaching of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 This will we do, if God permits. 4 For concerning those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify the Son of God for themselves again, and put him to open shame. 7 For the land which has drunk the rain that comes often on it, and brings forth a crop suitable for them for whose sake it is also tilled, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and thistles, it is rejected and near being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

    Dan Corner says this about this Hebrews-6 text and Hebrews 10. From: Hebrews Chapters 6 And 10 (Eternal Sin: Unforgivable Sin: Blasphemy Against The Holy Spirit)

    Perhaps the following comment can supply missing background information on this passage, as well as 6:4-9, as to why those referred to could not get saved again:
    Those addressed were Hebrew Christians, who, dis­couraged and persecuted, (10:32-39) were tempted to return to Juda­ism. Before being received again into the synagogue they would be publicly required to make the following statements (10:29): that Jesus was not the Son of God; that His blood was rightly shed as that of a common malefactor; and that His miracles were done by the power of the evil one. All this is implied in 10:29. (That such a repudia­tion would have been insisted on is illustrated by the case of a Hebrew Christian in Germany, who desired to return to the syna­gogue, but was refused when he desired to hold on to some of the New Testament truths.) Before their con­version they had belonged to the nation which had crucified Christ; to return to the synagogue would be to crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh and put Him to an open shame; it would be the awful sin of apostasy (Heb. 6:6); it would be like the unpardonable sin for which there is no for­giveness, because the one so hardened as to commit it cannot be “renewed unto repentance”; it would be worthy of a worse punishment than that of death (10:28); it would mean incurring the vengeance of the living God. 10:30,31.

    Also, in this video presentation http://onecanhappen.com/2009/12/29/shelley-hundley-set-free-from-sexual-abuse-understanding-jesus-as-the-judge-who-fights-for-you, Shelley Hundley mentions some believers who verbally reject Christ when forced to at gunpoint, but then how they became very strong believers afterward.
    I’m still thinking along the lines of what I discussed in my post at Who Goes to Heaven http://onecanhappen.com/2008/01/14/who-goes-to-heaven-scriptures/#comment-917, but I’m also interested in how this Hebrews-6 text applies.
    Dan Corner also compares the Hebrews-6 example to Peter falling away, but that was before Peter was a born-again, Holy Spirit indwelled Christian, as it was prior to Pentecost.
    Jeff Fenske

  3. Greetings in Jesus name all and each,
    May God find you blessed and prospering spiritually. Hi in particular to you Jeff and blessed be you and yours. Hebrews six is clearly an indication of LOSING something already gained ( salvation ) and of an unrepentable act! which deserves more thought and prayer by each and all of us who wish to finish the race and obtain the crown.
    For now i would like to look at two mentioned in the book of Acts, Ananias and his wife Sapphira.
    Many Eternal security followers would say these two people were saved. Although there is no direct answer to this in scripture lets examine the facts.
    Acts 5
    Fate of Ananias and Sapphira
    1But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property,
    2and (A)kept back some of the price for himself, with his wife’s full knowledge, and bringing a portion of it, he (B)laid it at the apostles’ feet.
    3But Peter said, “Ananias, why has (C)Satan filled your heart to lie (D)to the Holy Spirit and to (E)keep back some of the price of the land?
    4″While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but (F)to God.”
    5And as he heard these words, Ananias (G)fell down and breathed his last; and (H)great fear came over all who heard of it.
    6The young men got up and (I)covered him up, and after carrying him out, they buried him.
    7Now there elapsed an interval of about three hours, and his wife came in, not knowing what had happened.
    8And Peter responded to her, “Tell me whether you sold the land (J)for such and such a price?” And she said, “Yes, that was the price.”
    9Then Peter said to her, “Why is it that you have agreed together to (K)put (L)the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out as well.”
    10And immediately she (M)fell at his feet and breathed her last, and the young men came in and found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband.
    11And (N)great fear came over the whole church, and over all who heard of these things.
    Ananias and his wife allowed Satan to “Fill their heart” and so lied to the Holy Spirit, The great problem here seems to stem from lying unecessarily they after all had the option to
    1) keep the property
    2) sell the property and be honest of the amount they gave to the church. We must come to this conclusion from Peters reply to them that the property was theirs to do with as they please so there was no reason to lie, in lying to the church they lied to God and so to the Holy Spirit.
    What is Gods view of those who die as liars ?? where will their place be ?
    Revelation holds the answer to our questions that liars shall be with the father of the lie ,
    The Final Message
    10And he said to me, “(AC)Do not seal up (AD)the words of the prophecy of this book, (AE)for the time is near.
    11″(AF)Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy.”
    12″Behold, (AG)I am coming quickly, and My (AH)reward is with Me, (AI)to render to every man according to what he has done.
    13″I am the (AJ)Alpha and the Omega, (AK)the first and the last, (AL)the beginning and the end.”
    14Blessed are those who (AM)wash their robes, so that they may have the right to (AN)the tree of life, and may (AO)enter by the (AP)gates into the city.
    15(AQ)Outside are the (AR)dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.
    16″(AS)I, Jesus, have sent (AT)My angel to testify to you these things (AU)for the churches I am (AV)the root and the (AW)descendant of David, the bright (AX)morning star.”
    17The (AY)Spirit and the (AZ)bride say, “Come ” And let the one who hears say, “Come ” And (BA)let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the (BB)water of life without cost.
    18I testify to everyone who hears (BC)the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone (BD)adds to them, God will add to him (BE)the plagues which are written in (BF)this book;
    19and if anyone (BG)takes away from the (BH)words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from (BI)the tree of life and from the holy city, (BJ)which are written in this book.
    20He who (BK)testifies to these things says, “Yes, (BL)I am coming quickly ” Amen (BM)Come, Lord Jesus.
    21(BN)The grace of the Lord Jesus be with [c]all. Amen
    You notice here the water of life is free and without cost but only those who are obedient may take of it this is only logical as all those who practice immoral things are outside with “the dogs” notice liars are included
    15(AQ)Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.
    Now to the question of were Ananias and Sapphira saved ? Have they gone to be with the Father. A question i always ask myself here is does GOD strike down those he approves of ? especially in the new covenant ? my answer here must be no.
    The next question is were they repentant when they died ? I again would have to say no here as surely this important fact would have been included in the text and they would have been forgiven and spared. This would lead me to understand they died WITHOUT chance for repentance and so died as liars who must be disapproved of. Therefore it would seem on face value and in my humble opinion that these two people are indeed condemned.
    This is my own understandng of Acts 5 so if you have more to add or see my reasoning as false and can back up your part with scripture i would gladly be enlightened.
    May God bless all those who truly obey and seek the prize .
    Brother Adrian

  4. Jeff Fenske

    Brother Adrian,
    This is a very interesting subject! I’ve been listening to Acts 1-12 lately, over and over in the car. This is so timely! Thanks for sharing!!!
    Here’s my opinion.
    Have you been watching the IHOP Awakening at all? I’m listening to it right now.
    I have a number of posts up about it. Mike Bickle, the founder and head of IHOP talks about how there will be judgment toward some when God manifests His presence strongly when real revival comes. He talks about this somewhat here: [Mike Bickle IHOP 3/08] Making a Purity Covenant: Seven Practical Commitments — The Lord will visit IHOP-KC with an open door of glory in the spirit and a door of ministry to the nations. When Jesus opens a door of glory to release more of His manifest presence then He requires more agreement with His heart (a higher standard of obedience). … This is a promise with a warning of judgment.
    Notice the last part of the title. One of the reasons God doesn’t come in glorious power right now is because of this very reason: many would die, including church leaders. Lying is off the charts, as well as many other sins. And you’re right, lying is one of the things that prohibits people from going to heaven.
    But I think I may have a slightly different take on it. Many of these liars have been truly born-again. They know it’s wrong but still do it, thinking I don’t know what. Apparently, they fear man more than they do God. But “all liars” will not enter heaven. People don’t take your text or this one seriously enough. Rev. 21:8

    But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

    And it doesn’t matter if one was “saved” or not, the judgment still applies. I prefer to use the word “born-again,” because we’re not “saved” until we’ve “endured to the end.” Being born-again is just the start of this very interesting and challenging walk with God.
    I continue to be amazed when I read (or listen to) the accounts in Acts where the fear of the Lord is strong. These were the glory days! The church grew immensely during these times, but it also said that some were afraid to participate.
    This is interesting. Acts 9:31

    So the assemblies throughout all Judea and Galilee and Samaria had peace, and were built up. They were multiplied, walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit.

    Peace, built up, the fear of the Lord and the COMFORT of the Holy Spirit.
    Most churches in America today have none of these elements, really & honestly. God resists the proud but GIVES GRACE to the humble.
    The fear of the Lord is a good thing. It brings unity. But many theologians have reasoned out of Christianity the fear of the Lord, and the church is mostly spiritually dead as a consequence.
    Were Ananias and Sapphira born-again believers? I don’t know, but I wouldn’t assume at all that they weren’t. Consider Rev. 2:

    18 “To the angel of the assembly in Thyatira write: “The Son of God, who has his eyes like a flame of fire, and his feet are like burnished brass, says these things:
    19 “I know your works, your love, faith, service, patient endurance, and that your last works are more than the first. 20 But I have this against you, that you tolerate your woman, Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. She teaches and seduces my servants to commit sexual immorality, and to eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 I gave her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her sexual immorality. 22 Behold, I will throw her into a bed, and those who commit adultery with her into great oppression, unless they repent of her works. 23 I will kill her children with Death, and all the assemblies will know that I am he who searches the minds and hearts. I will give to each one of you according to your deeds.

    Was Jezebel born-again? I would think probably.
    Some are teaching today that God doesn’t directly judge His people, but look at the wording here:
    “I gave her time to repent…. Behold, I will throw her into a bed, and those who commit adultery with her into great oppression, unless they repent…. I will kill her children with Death, and all the assemblies will know that I am he who searches the minds and hearts. I will give to each one of you according to your deeds.”
    It’s pretty clear Who Would do the killing. When Paul said: “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,” he meant fear and trembling, not just “reverence.”
    I personally know born-again church leaders who not only have lied on occasion, but who are liars. And they won’t repent. And they actively try to make sure that the real kingdom of God doesn’t come in purity and power. They actually pray against (James-3 curse) those who are supposed to lead the church into repentance. And it’s not just church leaders who pray this way…. James was writing to believers who were cursing people…. If God would show up today like He did in Acts there would be many dead born-again but willfully sinning (sins that lead to death)’believers,’ I believe.
    But when God killed people in Acts, the church who remained flourished in peace and comfort, being built up — in the fear of the Lord.
    The fear of the Lord is a good thing. Those who’ve taught otherwise have done the church a disservice.
    Holy Spirit come. Have Your way, God. May we be ready — Your bride, making herself ready that you would come in your manifest presence. So we can be ONE with You and each other in a real and tangible way, making a huge difference in this sin sickened land.
    You are so much greater than Avatar in 3D! We worship you, not man. May Your people be holy, looking to You for revelation, for comfort. May we welcome every aspect of Your character.
    Some have been given a season to repent, and this season is running out. We need to make sure we’re right with everyone — ready for the HOLY Spirit to come like He did in Acts.
    Are we ready? I haven’t always been, myself. What if just one of us had been totally in God like Jesus was.
    The main thing is where we are at now. We can’t change the past, but we can be in Christ 100%, no excuses now — no matter what those who have hurt us did to us….
    They’ll fight us tooth and nail, because they’re not ready. Well, let’s be ready anyway, not letting them hold us back. May we forgive and be free, building up our faith by praying in the Holy Spirit.
    Praise God!!!
    Come, Lord Jesus?
    Are we ready?
    Pretty interesting stuff, huh, Adrian?
    I must confess that I’ve personally let excuses keep myself from always being totally right — totally ready. Just think if even just one person would have walked totally like Christ, somewhere? Regardless of how he or she was treated by the ‘church.’ Like Jesus, never ever willfully sinning.
    We don’t have to sin. If we can live holy for a minute, why not two, why not an hour — a day — a week …?
    I believe it’s too late to save America from the hard times ahead, physically. But spiritually we can soar! What are we waiting for?
    Let’s be clean, Clean, CLEAN, CLEAN, CLEAN to the max!
    So the Holy Spirit can come!
    No matter what the old guard wants. They won’t be able to hide in their sin when the HOLY Spirit comes.
    We won’t let Satan’s will be done. We will rise up and stand tall.
    If we all get ready now, people won’t have to die. But if people do die when God comes, excellent fruit will result. We don’t have to worry as long as we are right with each other, resting in Him.
    Jeff : )

  5. Greetings brother,
    Many many times i have stumbled and lacked faith, I know without faith it is impossible to please Him. I have prayed and seen the following in my few days
    My daughter deafness healed ( we still have the old hearing aid as a reminder!
    My Youngest sons facial deformity disappear after being told it would take three years of braces and surgery
    My daughters broken tooth “grow back” which was kind of hard to explain to the dentist.
    My own liver failure completely heal when the doctors said i should lie down and expect the worst.
    My Sons dyslexia cured after praying he could read Gods word on his own.
    Why am i telling you this ? We suffer so many up and downs in our walk with the Lord, Littleness of Faith, Sin , Fear , All of these break down our relationship with Him when we doubt we show a lack of belief in what He says He will do. Why then brother do the masses of churchgoers not look at both sides of Gods promises?
    For God says , IF you are faithful I will, confirm you, bless you, heal you , give wisdom to you, create in you a pure heart, forgive you if you repent and return …..
    HOWEVER God also says all of the things we shared with each other on this post .. He “WILL” leave us, say he does not know us, punish us and ultimately destroy us if we are not faithful to ” every word that that prophet speaks ! – GODS word says we must heed every word that Jesus speaks , this was prophesied in Moses day and fulfilled in the new testament ( see acts ), THAT IS Believing !! believing and obeying every word of our wonderful saviour , Is this so difficult thinking of the price He paid for us.
    To those who read this, believe in GODS promises , the blessings and the judgments and remember His word ALWAYS comes to pass for judgement will begin with the household of GOD first!.
    I still suffer doubt after all this time and it cripples my relationship with GOD, but it is better to believe and sink on the waves than never to step out of the boat. May GOD forgive my unbelief. For instance i have recently had health problems the doctors believe it is my gallbladder im not sure so have been speaking to GOD, praying over it and speaking against it , yet for some reason i feel something is amiss as though my faith is not in place ! After all that i have seen ! How can i possibly doubt GOD ?
    We have weaknesses but intentional sin is so different.
    Please Lord save us from our unbelief create in us a pure heart giving wisdom , The wisdom to know your heart and love, bless us all here and may all be blessed who read these words.
    Forgive us Father and help us to forgive all men as you forgive us .
    Father only that which has died needs to be revived help us never to enter that way only growing stronger in faith and the bonds of true love.
    Brother Jeff , We are Saved but can lose it, some of us are being saved and will re/gain salvatian through our new birth , may GOD fill you with all His Spirit and renew you each day for glorifying and serving Him in all truth
    Mat God bless you all
    In Jesus name
    Amen
    Brother Adrian
    Hashem Roi

  6. Jeff Fenske

    Adrian,
    Praise God for all of the healings you and your family have experienced!!!
    Personally, I would have been dead many years ago had God not freed me probably thousands of times from all of the stuff people have tried to put on me, the James-3 curses I talk so much about. This is a really bid deal in the church. Fully forgiving those who are cursing us also works.
    But then there are the non-demon caused illnesses for which we really do need healing. I’m definitely not where I want to be in this category, yet. I think that when ONE happens, supernatural healings will be the norm, not the exception. Which is another reason I focus on ONE. So many people need miracles. When ONE happens, the level of faith, the gifts operating through many who are ONE, the miracles and the joy will be out of sight!!!
    I do think that healing miracles have a lot to do with (and it sounds like you may know this) us trusting God totally that we are healed even before we see it: “believe that you have received.” And then people can lose their healings when they doubt, like Peter walking on the water and then being in the water. Some walk in this without a major move of the Spirit happening, but it will be so much easier when the body of Christ is wholely functioning and when we’re all so close to and filled with God!
    I don’t understand why born-again (the Holy Spirit inside) believers aren’t more interested in ONE happening, and why most are reluctant to study what the Bible really does teach about who goes to heaven. But hey, here we are trying to help people understand — so we can be free now and throughout eternity — together — ONE in Him!
    I think the number one reason is that it seems that most believers have a number of religious spirits that keep them in bondage to pursue what truth really is. I think many evangelicals have something like a Republican Party spirit too, which compels them to support republicans no matter how many reverse-Christian things they do and say. Why don’t Christians consider what Jesus taught about war, for example. How did abortion become the #1 issue when most evangelicals actively support the takeover of nations who didn’t do anything to us, which weren’t even a threat. This is so unconscionable, but hardly any evangelicals will do the research to see what they’ve been supporting, or to just read the research of those who have had eyes to see!
    I think there is so much praying (James-3 cursing) that people believe the party line in both the spiritual and in the political. The deception is great. So how to people break out of the Matrix?
    I’m just listening to a song being sung at the IHOP Awakening (which I mostly very much appreciate!). The line says: “Because of Your blood, here we are, now, forgiven.” But for how many watching does this really apply when many are disqualified because of lust alone?
    Shelley Hundley had a dream/vision that was instrumental in understanding this move of God at IHOP. And in the dream, God highlighted the signficance of the Jonathan Edwards led revival that occured in America almost 300 years ago, The Great Awakening! I think God dropped the truth right into their lap, that if the current day revivals will be built upon and learn from the previous ones (in this case what Jonathan Edwards taught), then these revivals will never stop. Revival is just a return to real Christianity, which should be the norm.
    As many know, Edwards’ famous sermon was “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God.” He helped people see the actual place they were in regarding their true salvation condition. Many repented….
    We need another Great Awakening which includes the truth about where the born-again believers actually are regarding their own salvation, currently. But there is a lot of pressure right now (K-LOVE comes to mind — 24/7 programmed we’re-saved-no-matter-what songs) to not even entertain such an idea….
    I’ve been praying a lot for those who are praying (James-3 cursing) that people wouldn’t be even open to listening to what the Bible really teaches about salvation, the spiritual bullies who actually use demonic power to get people to shut their ears so they won’t listen to what people like us are saying, and to what the Holy Spirit is trying to tell them.
    I think this is a spiritual battle, and the only way to win is through praying in the Spirit prayers of deliverance. OSAS (and similar) has the platform right now. They’ve flooded human consciousness with their message that we’re okay no matter what. And so many pray that people accept this deceptive message. I think it takes prayer to literally unseat the demons, the religious spirits that control born-again people’s feelings deep down so they aren’t even interested in researching the truth.
    Adrian, I think we should continue to forge ahead, doing what seems right to do. And those who are led to pray to break demonic strongholds, please pray!!!
    I don’t think we have much time before things really fall apart in America. And we need to get ready now, before it happens.
    We can do it! And the more that participate: “Many hands make the work light.”
    Jeff : )

  7. Hi Jeff,
    Just a quick reply, Here in the UK the body is in such a state, every church you visit has its own religious viewpoint which stands against scripture ( i have been ostracized in many churches / kingdom halls for speaking truth ). So few people want to life a life pleasing to GOD, They want to live a life pleasing to theirselves and GOD to agree with it!
    May GOD bless you my brother and keep your spirit strong, walking in truth all your days. Together we must forsake evil and not become weary in doing good for in due time we shall receive the prize if we run the race according to the rules of Him who judges all, remembering faith without works is dead / inactive.
    May GOD bless you in all your pursuits of Holiness.
    Your brother in Christ
    Adrian
    ( Please Jeff pray for a subject that we may openly discuss or privately via email , may GOD bless you )

  8. Jeff Fenske

    Adrian,
    Great to hear from you again!!
    Please check out my latest posts here, if you haven’t already: “Who are the children of God” and the R, T. Kendall forgiving stuff. Awesome forgiving teaching even though he and I apparently totally disagree on the OSAS doctrine and tithing. He’s written entire books on both subjects, I just found out. He spoke his awesome message on forgiving in London this summer, available to see at his site. I just watched it last night. Awesome, Awesome!!
    This is the message he spoke to our church yesterday morning. And this is it in a nutshell, most of how we can always forgive everyone. Then the demons have no place in our lives, no right for the curses to stick. Though we still have to make sure we never lust, etc..
    You talked about getting ostracized by churches. You don’t think they could have possibly James-3 cursed you while giving you the right foot of fellowship, do you?
    My answer would be absolutely, the first thing they do is the prayers against you. The hate and anger precede the boot.
    Have you been hanging out at all, watching the IHOP Awakening stuff and the prayer room video feeds? I have links up and lots of posts on what’s going on and how to tune in. ‘ONE’ isn’t totally happening yet, partly because they seem to be struggling with the who goes to heaven topic themselves. They seem to go from one extreme to the other. While they’ve actually been talking and singing about the fear of the Lord lately. But some are singing they’re saved no matter what. The main thing is what’s going through Mike Bickle’s head, as well as Wes Hall’s and Alan’s (the Bible school leaders & Mike is the founder and top leader).
    It would be great if they would get a revelation of what we’ve found, but this may not happen until perhaps a revival starts here in Anchorage, complete with the truth about who goes to heaven, who are Christ’s, who are the children of God, really — Biblically.
    I’m still on the verge of offering $1,000 to anyone who can refute my Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures article. I just need to review it one more time, as well as finalize how I’m going to word the offer. I think I’ll start by keeping it vague. I don’t want to say exactly where someone retains or looses their salvation, to then have to get it back again. I’d rather just give the Biblical framework that show some of the boundaries, so people know where the danger and safe zones are.
    Some may give me a hard time for not being more specific, but I’ll only get as specific as feels comfortable.
    I’m not hearing from God one way or the other, whether to offer the award or not. It seems just like the right thing to do in order to create more awareness in how clear the Bible really is. OSAS (and similar) shouldn’t even be a possibility anymore. But the OSAS people dominate the media.
    I just now wrote in another comment how maybe there will be kind of a doctrinal showdown. Maybe people will only understand when God moves in a huge way where there is sound doctrine, finally.
    I don’t know of one church, right now, that is right in the doctrines I consider to be key (and I include tithing in that, which I also believe is unscriptural for us in the new covenant. It helps keep churches dead and non-Holy-Spirit-led. I think tithing was one of the main reasons the Vineyard movement died when it did).
    Adrian, before I forget, what does “Hashem Roi” mean? I took one year of Hebrew in college (the ’70s), which was mainly just an intro. It helped me read the road signs in Israel, though.
    Your gall bladder thing:
    Is this still an issue? If so, are we talking stones or just pain and sluggishness?
    If it’s stones, there are certain totally natural flushes (and close to £free) that can probably do the trick. Also, certain nutrients (like cranberries, vitamin C, perhaps) can dissolve kidney stones and gout problems.
    My guess is that you’ve been James-3 cursed. They’re trying to put fear on you. The liver area is a key area where this happens. I know from personal experience.
    Do you pray in tongues? If you don’t, we could talk about that. I wrote a whole exposé http://onecanhappen.com/2009/11/22/also-ive-finally-shared-much-of-what-i-know-about-the-tremendous-and-mostly-misunderstood-and-underused-gift-of-tongues-another-reader-thankfully-put-me-over-the-edge on how we can pray in tongues for those cursing us and then see the symptoms instantly disappear. It’s happened to me thousands of times. I get cursed a lot.
    But now that we have the key to always being able to fully forgive, I highly recommend to master the privilege we have of forgiving others. Kendall really does have a handle on it. Very exciting! And God is saying that it’s not one or the other — either forgive fully or either pray in tongues for those who curse us: http://onecanhappen.com/2008/01/07/a-gift-that-will-set-many-free. We should do both.
    Anyway, I know a lot about ‘Christians’ cursing people, especially church leaders. I have posts specifically on this subject. If you haven’t read these, please feast. I have categories in the pull-down menu for Speaking in Tongues and ‘Christians’ Cursing People. And I have a People Cursing People category over at ToBeFree too. But the posts here will probably be the most helpful.
    By the way, I’ve been praying a lot in tongues for those who are trying to keep people to be against me. There are spiritual bullies who pray that people would be against certain people. And many will just go with what they feel, the spirits that others put on them.
    You could also pray this way for yourself, praying in tongues specifically for those who want people to be against you until your prayer language stops. I wrote about how to do this. This is a totally safe way to pray. God decides the specifics. Only He has the wisdom and right to deal with people harshly. We don’t want to fight the dark side by being dark. I just pray for the people and God decides what is appropriate. In many cases, I know that God is blessing them, setting them free in ways. This is a key way to specifically bless and pray for our enemies!! Awesome stuff that hardly anyone knows anything about, sadly 🙁
    But this could change, hopefully. Especially, if we get real Christianity going here and people find out how specific prayers in tongues were one of the biggest reasons why.
    Please listen to and/or watch Kendall’s forgiving messages. Our church will probably have the audio of Sunday’s message posted soon, but sometimes they wait quite a while. the video at Kendall’s site is wonderful. There is no way to pause it, though. I’d like to transcribe some quotes from it. I can’t find another audio or video source of this message yet. If I have to, I may record the audio on my own device, so I can pause on playback in order to transcribe carefully enough.
    [I now see that R. T. has MP3 audio downloads for $3 too. Hmmm. His site: http://www.rtkendallministries.com ]
    God bless!
    Power to the peaceful — Adrian!
    Jeff : )

  9. Hi Jeff,
    I have to keep this very very brief as i am so busy today and praying for my stepfather who suffered a stroke earlier today. I am not sure exactly what the health problem is ( stones / sluggish etc ) I am uncursed ( i truly know this ) and no curse can stick to me for certain reasons ( this is something i would like to discuss with you at length soon ) I have learned to forgive all people of all things this is a great blessing to me, I cant actually think of one person whom i hold a negative memory towards having forgiven them all , its a very peaceful feeling.
    I have very little time to watch ( religious / revivial etc ) material and besides my bibles, dictionaries etc i dont really have any possesions so my time is spent in prayer or GODS word I tend to read at least 15 – 25 chapters daily.
    Tongues, Yes i speak in them ,although recently i have found myself praying more with the mind than with the spirit something i should probably correct, I do seek the greater gifts also and even the lesser ones. Anyway my brother please speak out against my sickness in the flesh as you know Elijah was a righteous man with a nature such as ours and he earnestly prayed for no rain and for rain both prayers were answered for the effective prayer of a righteous man holds much ground with GOD.
    I will try to write tomorrow to you and have recently contacted a brother whom i helped see the lies of the Jehovahs witnesses , He is now a Christian and stands for the truth of our Lord Jesus. If i can start him contributing to the site it would be a blessing for us all. I have never met him but he is now my brother in South Africa we have exchange many emails / letters / photos . May GODS blessing be upon him and you.
    Thank you for taking the time and concern to write to me.
    By this they will know we belong to HIM “That we have love amongst ourselves”
    ( PS: Sorry i have strayed from the starting subject so much, maybe you would like to erase some of the posts ? )

  10. Jeff Fenske

    Adrian,
    You could pray for whoever has or is cursing your stepfather. It may not be the entire reason for the illness, but it’s usually at least part of it. You can see what you get prayer language for, if you know how to focus. It’s amazing what you can learn from praying in tongues, including who is cursing who.
    Many believe they are totally forgiving, but few actually acheive this. R. T. gives some tests, but an even more accurate test is to pray in tongues to see what’s up. Pray for whoever is cursing you and it’s affecting your liver, and see if you get tongues.
    Or (if the pain is still there — no one prayed this way for you already, for example) pray for all those cursing you and see if the pain in your liver disappears. Often the pain will be gone “just like that”!
    I like to let people know when I’ll pray, and then they can assess how they felt before and how they feel after. There’s often a radical difference that they notice. Most people live their lives affected by demons people put on them. And they have no idea….
    I’m not concerned about us going off topic on this post. If it was under one of my major writings, that would be a different story. I’m sure others will find of this interesting.
    Jehovah’s Witnesses:
    I actually have good feelings about the JWs right now. I’m fairly convinced that many will become strong in the real faith once they see the real thing in the coming revival. I used to see them as an adversary. Some would fight against what I was doing, pray against my influence on people they wanted to influence. But now I can counter those evil spirits in tongues, and it’s no big deal. I think many will become our good friends someday. I think many JWs are closer to God than many evangelicals. I smile when I think them now. I believe many will be right in there with us in the coming revival.
    Perhaps tongues are a minor gift in church service settings, but I think praying in tongues is huge when it comes to our personal walk with God and how we can affect and free others as well.
    It’s a tremendously underestimated gift. The Vineyard movement hid it under the carpet, which I think was another major reason for the end of the move of God that had so much potential. I’m glad to see IHOP being unashamed of it. However, I don’t know if it’s wise and Biblical to pray in tongues publicly like they do. Paul’s main point about this in 1 Cor. 14 is about not freaking visitors out. Perhaps people aren’t freaked out and turned off by how IHOP does it. I don’t know and it’s not my call, anyway, thankfully.
    God bless!
    Jeff : )

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