Transcribed by Jeff Fenske from the Cornerstone Television program, Getting Together, probably in the late ’90s. Possibly still available as an audio tape—program #80416.
Dennis Cramer, author of Breaking Christian Curses, said this about about the current James-3 cursing epidemic:
I’ve learned from experience that most Christians curse for the purpose of retaliation and vindication, because they’re proud, arrogant. They’ve known some measure of success, and they may even be skilled in the things of God.
In fact, that’s why sometimes Christian leaders are even more vulnerable to being able to launch curses—because they’ve been entrusted with spiritual skills, you see. And if we don’t use those spiritual skills in a constructive manner, if we use them in a destructive manner, like the disciples tried to, then, of course, we as leaders are at a greater risk.
So I have found that most Christians, based on a self righteous mentality, a proud spirit, and unbrokenness in their lives, believe that they’re so important to God that they can retaliate. And they use those spiritual weapons that were supposed to be used on the Devil against other Christians.
………………
The host asked:
What was your response to these people, the people that placed this curse over you? … What’s the correct response?
Dennis Cramer answered:
What my response was and the correct response weren’t the same, at first.
I did everything wrong. I was bitter; I was angry; I was frustrated; I was upset; I was hurt; I lashed back; I broke every rule in the Book.
Was I the victim, absolutely? But was I responsible for my sinful behavior, absolutely. I was wrong. I made every mistake possible. But eventually, God said, now, the real key to your release is to forgive them. And that’s what really did more for me than anything else—more than rebuking, and using the name of Jesus, and quoting scriptures, and having other people pray with me.
As I forgave, and as I loved—and listen to me: as I began to pray for them—man, I was completely freed!
That was the biggest weapon of my warfare. I began to pray for and bless those that cursed me. And that, more than anything else, set me free.
Related:
A Gift that Will Set Many Free! (A Death Warrant is Out for Your Souls)
(prophecy) MANY CURSE Others From Their HURTS DEEP WITHIN — “Hate and anger breed impatience. This hurt destroys My body, giving death to many members … Let respect overrule impatience … Tell him you’re sorry. See him repent if he did you harm too”
Can a Christian Have a Demon? Absolutely! Most Have Many!
“Breaking Christian Curses: Finding Freedom from Destructive Prayers” by Dennis Cramer
Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way (Can James-3 cursers go to heaven?)
WordPOWER: Repay No One Evil for Evil — Don’t Curse — Give Place to God’s Wrath
WordPOWER: The Remedy for James-3 Cursing & Partysville in Today’s Church is James 4
Martin Luther Cursed from His Heart Catholic Leaders, ‘Every Day’
[WordPOWER!] Romans 12: Repay No One Evil for Evil — Don’t Curse — Give Place to God’s Wrath
Monica
My sisters and i are all? “Christians However, One of my sisters seems to enjoy cursing people that cross her, Or do something that may upset her life.
What is worse… is that many of her curse come to pass. It disturbs us that she seems to enjoy the power. She reminds us of a Witch rather than a christian woman. What can we do to protect ourselves other than Blocking the
blows that she hits us with? Spiritually??
Jeff Fenske
Monica,
Thank you so very much for asking this!!! I would love to respond! I get cursed many times every single day, and have studied this topic for about 30 years.
I think the answer is 2-fold; though, doing just one of the two could achieve very significant results. The balance is in the prophecy that I link to, above: A Gift that Will Set Many Free! (A Death Warrant is Out for Your Souls).
Forgiving her 100% from your whole heart + praying in tongues for her, and even for those who have or are cursing her. You can help her and yourself, big-time.
If you’re kind of squeamish about praying in tongues, I’ll say some things here, and I really do need to write a post just on what the Bible really says about tongues, and how they work in reality to deal with the demons so we don’t have to actually see and know in entirety what is going on with these ugly creatures who affect just about everyone, including born-again Christians.
The people who curse us most are often those who know us best, or whom are convicted by something we stand for, etc., or whom are envious of us, for some reason.
I’ve been thinking lately about why ‘envy’ is in Paul’s Galatians-5 list of who doesn’t go to heaven. [Related: Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way]. I think the people who envy often respond by cursing those whom they envy. Perhaps that is why envy is such a big deal. It results in hatred towards others. Whereas real Christians want each other to do well, for we are all members of Christ’s body!
I just posted: Forgiving-Others, Freedom Prayer! Praying this prayer, alone, sincerely will set you free from her James-3 curses. [I call them James-3′ because James shows how ‘Christians’ can actually curse one another.
I’ll try to say more tomorrow. There are ways to not just free yourself, but also to help free her. “Hurt people hurt people.” I actually had an extraordinarily difficult day in which I need to pray this prayer again for some people, myself.
God bless, and please add further thoughts if you’d like.
Jeff Fenske
Jeff Fenske
To Monica and whoever else is interested, Part II:
Speaking in tongues to get free and to free others, even sometimes those who are doing the cursing
This is a huge subject that is so difficult to discuss because there are so many misconceptions about it. But it’s worth discussing because it’s one powerful and amazing gift that is very practical in dealing with demons that affect our lives and others.
Satan wants people to avoid this gift because it’s one of the greatest weapons to thwart his attacks. And one of the best things about this gift is that we don’t have to know specifically the yucky details about the demons in order to get the job done.
It seems that there are only a small percentage of Christians who use this gift. Either they never have, or they just don’t continue to pray in tongues, once they have, perhaps thinking that it doesn’t do much, or that it’s just a form of praise or something.
It doesn’t make sense to me that it’s a form of praise (at least mainly), for God wants us to worship from our hearts. And one can even think about other things while they’re praying in tongues (we don’t have to concentrate on God to be able to pray in tongues). Clinically, I think it could easily be proven that speaking in tongues mainly deals with demons. I may talk about this in more depth later in this comment. People can often get instantly healed from especially focused tongues, which God mentions in this prophecy http://onecanhappen.com/2008/01/07/a-gift-that-will-set-many-free, and is something I’ve been doing for about 25 years. More about that ahead.
First, there is this misconception that only some Christians can get the gift of speaking in tongues, which is mainly based upon 1 Cor. 12; though, this seems to be talking about those who would use the gift in a public setting during a church service, for example, where there would be an interpretation.
But just two chapters later, Paul gives directions as to how to use the gift decently and in order. He says in 14:23 — “If therefore the whole assembly is assembled together and all speak with other languages, and unlearned or unbelieving people come in, won’t they say that you are crazy?”
“”If therefore the whole assembly is assembled together and all speak with other languages…?” What’s up with that? It seems like that’s what the Corinthian church was in the habit of doing. They were all speaking in tongues at one time. Paul corrected them to pray in tongues in private. In the church meetings, he’d rather that people prophecy, or if there is a message in tongues (different than just praying in tongues), then there must be an interpretation so people don’t think we’re crazy and so there is benefit for all.
Right? Does this make sense? Now on the incidents in Acts where all spoke in tongues.
In this article http://onecanhappen.com/2009/02/16/jim-feeney-why-speak-in-tongues-is-speaking-in-tongues-of-god-is-it-for-today/#more-1556, Jim Feeney explains the two occasions after Pentecost that everyone who became a believer spoke in tongues, Acts 11 and 19. It’s not relegated to just some. Why would God withhold such a powerfully freeing gift from anyone? It doesn’t make sense.
Also, Jesus said in the last chapter of Mark that tongues is one of the signs of those who believe. Mark 16:17 —
“These signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new languages….”
Here is a comment by a reader who discovered how to be free by praying in tongues http://onecanhappen.com/2008/01/07/a-gift-that-will-set-many-free/#comment-837, and he mentions Jude 20: “But you, beloved, keep building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit.”
And praying in tongues isn’t just in an earthly language, as Paul points out in 1 Cor. 13:1 — “If I speak with the languages of men and of angels.” I think some groups are taught that tongues were merely for people to be able to preach to others in their language. This may have happened at Pentecost, and at times since, but this isn’t the norm. I already mentioned how Paul taught in the next chapter to pray in tongues in private, but I don’t have any problem with praying in tongues in a group if there aren’t visitors who could get wigged out.
Praying in tongues is for every Christian. The battle we fight, Paul said, is against the unseen demonic forces. Why did Paul say he prayed in tongues more than anyone else? Probably because he was attacked more than everyone else and he found it invaluable to be able to be free.
It also goes hand in hand with forgiving. Forgiving alone can free a person, if it’s done completely and from the our entire hearts. But it’s also easier to forgive when we’ve dealt with the spirits in tongues. It’s great to see people freed up, and we can help this happen when we pray for them in tongues. Few understand how to do this though.
It’s just a matter of believing in our hearts that when we are praying in tongues we are praying for a specific person, like in your case, Monica, your sister. I just pray for people this way, focusing on them with my heart until my tongues stop. Often, I’ll see a difference right away. They may even apologize after their empowering demons are gone.
For those of you who don’t believe a born-again Christian can have demons empowering them or affecting them, that’s another whole essay, almost. But basically, we give them a place by not totally forgiving (Matthew 18). Jesus allows us to be tormented until we learn how to fully walk in love. And I mean fully, because 99% will still give the demon a right, a place, like in Ephesians 4:27. The NIV mistranslates this, saying “foothold” instead of “place” — topos in Greek, like topography.
And James 3 is very clear that people who have been born-again certainly can and do curse people. And this is a no no.
I will occasionally pray that God would deal with someone according to His will, and I’ll pray this through in tongues. You can do this for your sister. But I only do this if I get tongues, for as long as I get tongues. And I let God decide 100% of what is appropriate. It’s not for me to even know what is appropriate. We must keep our hands and hearts squeaky clean. God will deal with people, like Jezebel in Rev. 2, in the degree and timing that only He knows.
By the way, I’m confident that I’d be dead now had I not known how to pray in tongues and taught a friend of mine, also. And many others would be dead (not just sick) if we didn’t pray in tongues for people.
With me, when I was in high school, I heard about tongues and then studied it in the Bible. I had an idea that the Christian life would be a hard walk, and I figured I needed everything I could get to succeed in it. So I pursued this gift. I spoke in tongues for the first time at a ministry in Minneapolis called Soul’s Harbor. I spoke the words non-stop while others were praying with me and laying hands on me. But later that night, all by myself in the car, I thought “I’m not sure that was it.” Doubts plagued my thinking and I didn’t do it again until I started attending Abbott Loop Christian Center (now Abbott Loop Community Church) in Anchorage, Alaska. There, Harold House taught me that God will put the words in my mouth, but I have to speak them. It’s that simple.
And that’s all I needed to get me back on track and in gear, speaking regularly in tongues. And I discovered at that time that the only way I would get peace was if I spoke in tongues or worshiped God — another way to be free, by the way, is to worship. But then if we stop worshiping….
Later, still in the early ’80s, I started hearing names of people. The first time this happened, I called the person up, not sure why God had told me this person’s name. The conversation went no where. I soon discovered that God was giving me words of knowledge to know who to pray for. And I’ve been doing this ever since, probably thousands of times every year. And sometimes it’s a description of the person, not a name, per say.
Being that I’m prophetic (which I didn’t realize until later in my life), I’ve found that some people (like certain church leaders who aren’t right with God and they know that I know) are very disturbed by me, and curse me “for the purpose of retaliation and vindication,” the title of this post. Their hate is sometimes off the chart. And this is how they live, putting on a smiling persona while in public that not everyone can easily see through; though, many can.
I should also say that if two people pray in tongues for the same person, no matter where this person is in the world, if they are believing in their hearts they are praying in tongues only for this person (not everyone can concentrate easily in this way, it seems), then I’ve found that their prayer language will stop at almost the exact same time, as the prayers are done.
It’s like double-teaming a person. The more people that pray the shorter the prayers will be. I believe this can all be easily proven in a clinical setting. I’d be glad to be one of the guinea pigs under the right conditions.
It’s very common that if we pray for those cursing us we’ll feel significantly freer. We may even feel something as the demon(s) leave. I’ve personally been freed up in this way just about every day in the last few decades, for I get cursed a lot! And I’ve had to pray a lot, but if we are successfully forgiving (which hardly anyone at this time is, but this will happen more and more) then we won’t even feel the demons to begin with.
And one of my weaknesses, perhaps, is that I like to know what’s going on, and so this gives me less incentive to forgive. So this is probably not so much a good thing. I’m trying to do better in this. But if there is anyone who curses me reading this, you can probably be pretty sure that if I know you personally, I know whether you curse me or not, and when. So if you ever come up to me and apologize, it probably won’t come as a surprise to me. I still love you no matter what. I promise. My email is listed at “About Jeff Fenske” and my phone number is listed in the Anchorage, Alaska phone directories. Why not come clean? I won’t bite. May we all be ONE and right with each other.
I hesitated for many years sharing these principles, thinking that someone could use this knowledge for bad purposes. But I’m thinking that now, things are so bad in America that we need this knowledge to be put into practice big-time. And the people that regularly curse people need to know that we know who you are. People can curse those whom we love too, out of jealousy, which has happened to me. So I don’t share everything online about my life, for that reason, alone.
If you’re wondering if a certain person is cursing you, pray in tongues for this person as if they are, believing that you will only pray for this particular thing. If you get tongues they’re cursing you, if you don’t, others could have prayed this already, or they’re probably not cursing you at all.
If anyone has any questions, I’d be glad to try to answer them, or tell you if I can’t.
Also, sometimes it’s really instructional if someone asks us to pray for them, and we’ll set up a time that we’ll pray. I’ll ask the person to assess how they feel at the start, and then as soon as we’re done praying, I’ll tell the person we’re done and ask them if they feel any different. Rarely do they not.
And the more people stand up for truth the more they’ll get cursed, generally. The more that people just try to blend in under the radar, the less they’ll get cursed. And the nice-by-nature people who have the gift of helps probably don’t get cursed much because they’re not designed to challenge the status quo.
But this amazing gift doesn’t stop there. A smaller percentage of people will perhaps be able to do this, but I’ve done this a lot. First, the easier intercessory prayer technique:
We can pray for people who curse others, not just for those who curse us. And then pray until our tongues stop. We’ve done this many times in the home meetings we used to have. And I do this a lot. If I know you there is a good chance that I’ve prayed this way for you.
One can also pray for those praying against (James-3 cursing) even a group of people.
And then there is tongues 901, probably the most advanced thing that I know how to do via tongues. We can pray for the first source of the curses affecting people.
For example: someone may have cursed someone who curses another who curses another who curses a friend who curses you. We can pray at the start of the chain and work our way down if there are tongues for that.
A general principle: if you believe you’re praying for something and get tongues there is probably something to your hunch, leading you to pray this way. It’s almost scientific, and it would be very interesting to test these theories that I know are fact, proving them in clinical tests, someday.
In the meantime, those of you who know you are cursing me, thinking that I don’t know. Like I already said, if I know you personally, I probably know and love you still. So please don’t curse me. Why not be for people to do well, instead of being part of the dark side who will not go to heaven. See Paul’s Gal.-5 list in my post http://onecanhappen.com/2008/01/14/who-goes-to-heaven-scriptures, which I just offered elsewhere a $500 reward to anyone who can refute the gist of it. No one has been able to for almost two years now, so why don’t we just all believe this as fact, and live by it, and stop cursing one another, ya’ll. Please??
Again, I’d be glad to answer any questions or ….
FREEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee———-DOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Power to the Peaceful.
May we all go to heaven, right with each other in Christ Jesus!
Did I miss anything about speaking in tongues? I tried to be comprehensive, but I probably missed something. Let me know.
Phew! I probably put this off way too long. There are probably many millions who would benefit greatly from this information. I apologize for not getting this out sooner, but I’m glad I finally did, and thank you, Monica, for asking, helping me.
I’m really surprised at how little help I’ve gotten from readers who for some reason are hesitant to pull info out of me, like in my personal blog (the first post: http://jefffenske.com/2009/06/03/first-post) but that’s how I seem to work best.
It’s been a long hard road. I’ll be so relieved and happy when revival finally happens.
Hey, by the way, if anyone wants to pray for those cursing me in tongues, have at it. I can really use the help. And until a lot of people do this, or a few do this a lot, you’ll see how much I really do get cursed. And if you have a hunch who it is that is cursing me, you can test your hunches too.
Power to the people! May the bullies realize they’ve been found out years ago. So why act like everything is okay when it’s not. Why not repent and apologize for many know anyway. And the more people that catch onto this the more that will know.
The sooner you get right with people the sooner you can be happy and relax…………………
I thought of another thing. I have ‘lying’ categories on both of my sites, because lying is epidemic. It’s good to know how it works and even when one is lying or telling the truth. My main way to see if someone is lying to me or not (if I suspect this is the case) is to pray for them in tongues specifically for them doing this to me. If I get prayer language, this is almost a certainty that they are. If I don’t, it’s possible that someone else has prayed this through (especially if they’re a well known person who get a lot of prayer) or God for some reason didn’t want anything prayed regarding this. But generally, if I don’t get tongues they’re telling the truth.
Jeff Fenske : )
marlene Weber
So glad somebodies writing about this subject. I only thought this went on out in the worldly babylonian system. I was shocked after learning the hard way How many christian leaders practices this blatently obvious sin. One thing u need to know…yes forgive, yes pray in tongues but if they willfully keep giving themselves to this, have nothing to do with them. God will deal with them no matter how they rationalize its ok to do what they do.
Jeff Fenske
Thanks, Marlene. I am also thankful there is at least this one book….
But I continue to be shocked that more people aren’t aware of the prevalence of ‘Christians’ James-3 cursing people. But I suppose it makes sense that the leaders who are doing it aren’t going to expose themselves.
From my experience, having been a Christian since 1974, and discovered this in the early ’80s, I think church leaders James-3 cursing people is ALMOST UNIVERSAL in the American evangelical churches. Very few are “working out their salvation with fear and trembling,” being right with everyone, as Paul could say of himself (Acts 24:16).
And the Holy Spirit won’t move until His people are worshiping in Spirit and in truth.
Mariana
Ahh.
Tongues. I wonder how.
I still do not comprehend how can one group of people receive tongues out of the blue without asking (even do not plan to use it afterwards) AND imediatlly then to realise it is it and know they got it . Just after handfull words. And than another group is actively searching, asking, letting fellows and elders and pastor lay hands on you, even decided letting mouth running for hours whatever it will, in hope.. and still.
There is not one word getting out off my mouth, from the whole nonsense which would encourage and confirm to me it´s it.
Just how.
I understand it is not about getting but receiving. You get when you ask, I asked. But how to open myself for Holy Spirit to use me.
Also you talk about tongues stopping, which is interesting to me, that means that your tongues don´t change in such moment to true gibberish.? So there IS some awareness, but did you have such awareness right from the beginning or that developed.
Isn´t this gift suppose to be fellowship with the Holy Spirit, he in the command you the instrument. But to Know, be aware and recognize his work from yours and not be so totally disconnected during.
Jeff Fenske
Mariana,
Thanks for your comment. I’m not sure I understand fully all of your points, but I’ll try to respond.
I still do not comprehend how can one group of people receive tongues out of the blue without asking (even do not plan to use it afterwards) AND imediatlly then to realise it is it and know they got it . Just after handfull words. And than another group is actively searching, asking, letting fellows and elders and pastor lay hands on you, even decided letting mouth running for hours whatever it will, in hope.. and still.
I can only remember one time in which a person I know was in a meeting (a fellow seminary student) and started speaking in tongues pretty much automatically. I saw him a number of years later, and he hadn’t spoken in tongues since, because he thought it would always be that way: automatic.
We ended up talking and praying all night in a classroom, after having met in the library the night before. We probably hadn’t seen each other in 10 years. I was just revisiting the seminary to do some research.
From that experience, it seems to me that it would have been better for him if he had spoken in tongues for the first time the way that most of us have done it: God giving us the words to say in our mouths, but we have to speak them.
Then he would have been more likely to have prayed this way ever since. We were singing in tongues too, during those early hours in that classroom. He was telling me some horrible experiences he had in his vicarship. Had he been able to pray in tongues during that time for those harassing him perhaps it would have gone way better.
I hope he’s doing well. We lost contact, again.
There is not one word getting out off my mouth, from the whole nonsense which would encourage and confirm to me it´s it.
Just how.
The main thing is that you speak what you get, no matter what it sounds like. Don’t worry about that. It can be a language of men or of angels (1 Cor. 13). The main thing is to say what you get.
And it’s pretty easy to know if we’re consciously making words up, or if we’re just saying what we’re getting.
Trust Jesus to give you this gift much more than you trust the Devil to give you a counterfeit.
The proof in the pudding will be in how much better you feel after praying, which to me has happened so many thousands of times….
I understand it is not about getting but receiving. You get when you ask, I asked. But how to open myself for Holy Spirit to use me.
It’s often a lot easier than people think. The words will be in your mouth, ready to go. Just speak them. It’s that simple.
Also you talk about tongues stopping, which is interesting to me, that means that your tongues don´t change in such moment to true gibberish.?
I’ve had a few times in which I had prayed in tongues so much that everything was prayed for, apparently, and I got no more prayer language at that time. But that’s rare.
What is very common for me, though, is when I pray for a specific person in tongues, the prayer language always stops after whatever I’m praying for is finished being prayed for.
This is a more advanced way to pray in tongues that most people apparently don’t do. I do know a couple of others who have done this without me showing them how, though.
I do this many times, every day, and notice tangible results probably every day — mainly in how I feel a release from their James-3 curse toward me. Please see these:
A Gift that Will Set Many Free! (A Death Warrant is Out for Your Souls)
I’ve finally shared much of what I know about and what can be done through the TREMENDOUS and mostly misunderstood and underused gift of tongues.
So there IS some awareness, but did you have such awareness right from the beginning or that developed.
Pretty much right from the beginning, I noticed I felt better when praying in tongues in general (without praying for anyone or anything in particular).
I share in the last article, above:
Later, still in the early ’80s, I started hearing names of people. The first time this happened, I called the person up, not sure why God had told me this person’s name. The conversation went no where. I soon discovered that God was giving me words of knowledge to know who to pray for. And I’ve been doing this ever since, probably thousands of times every year.
I often pray more than an hour a day, much of it praying for those whom I know I’m specifically praying for. I try to pray as much as I need to in order to be freed up enough to get things done. Also, one of my main motivations is to free up others, or for God to deal with certain people who are James-3 cursing others so they can control them, or even make them sick or lethargic. I would never pray for God to deal with someone in English, but I know when I pray for them in tongues the Holy Spirit prays perfectly anything that needs to be prayed.
It’s AMAZING what can be accomplished by praying this way. If the revival starts in Anchorage, this will probably be the #1 reason why — the #1 thing we did enough of. I pray all kinds of things, breaking many different sources of curses and strongholds. Many people are a lot more evil than most of us realize — the hate and anger and the control!!!
This means also that I most often know, or can figure the main people who are James-3 cursing me. People, including religious leaders, think they can pray against people without the person knowing, but I mostly know who these people are. For one thing, often, God will tell me their names or a descriptive phrase, but that could vary greatly from how He works with others. Others, I’m guessing, may get visions instead.
We can often see the people change in front of our eyes this way — a coworker, for example, or someone who is so mean to us. Pray for them in tongues, believing in your heart you’re praying only for them (and maybe only for a certain thing too), and watch them change.
Conflict often turns into peace.
And if we’re by ourselves and the person cursing us may be thousands of miles away, after we pray for them there will often be a noticeable release and freedom afterwards.
If your pets are having nightmares from someone cursing them, pray for that person and see their nightmare stop immediately. Then you know who is cursing your pet too. Often, they’re jealous, or vindictive. It’s not only people who get sick from being cursed.
Isn´t this gift suppose to be fellowship with the Holy Spirit, he in the command you the instrument. But to Know, be aware and recognize his work from yours and not be so totally disconnected during.
Jesus said in John 14 and 16 that the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth. The Holy Spirit will teach us many things that He hasn’t put in the Bible. I’ve been doing this since the early ’80s. One can learn a lot, praying many thousands of hours in this way. I hear many names to pray for every day. Sometimes, I make a list of those regularly cursing me, or praying that others would be against me (happens a lot to me), or not be open to the truth, etc..
It’s harder right now. It takes more prayer, because there is so much willful sin and few are getting right with those they’ve hurt. They’re digging in, putting off what they know they should do, thinking somehow they’re going to get away with this, or something. I don’t know. I don’t understand that mentality, but James-3 cursing is off-the-charts, really hot and heavy. I do see an end of the tunnel, though. Maybe even soon.
If people know someone is onto them, and could be a threat to them being exposed, these people can be amazingly mean and cruel in how they pray; though, may appear nice on the outside.
It’s also hard when so few still are praying in tongues. Hardly any do enough. So those of us who do have an extra load — praying for others what others should be praying things through for themselves.
But this soon can change. And the more we pray, and get others to pray too, the faster revival will come. Because demons in people stifle Christianity. And praying in tongues is one of the key ways to deal with demons.
Mariana, if you have any other questions or comments please let me know.
Jeff
Mariana
-I am simply still not baptized with The Holy Spirit. That is the matter.
You say:
And it’s pretty easy to know if we’re consciously making words up, or if we’re just saying what we’re getting.
-INDEED. I thought I just need to owercome disbelief. But no, I absolutely know for sure. It is so simple.
you say:
Trust Jesus to give you this gift much more than you trust the Devil to give you a counterfeit.
-It is not about thinking it is counterfeit, but honest babble of my own.
you say:
The proof in the pudding will be in how much better you feel after praying, which to me has happened so many thousands of times….
-Yes. Indeed. That’s the proof.
-And I am really relieved, cause I am no more confused and frustrated about the matter.
-However I am still disappointed. I don’t know how I am resisting the baptism.
Also, Thank you for your first reply!
Jeff Fenske
I don’t call it the “baptism of the Spirit,” because there are other evidences of receiving the baptism besides speaking in tongues.
But that’s no big deal. What are you saying, Marana? You’re still not speaking in tongues, and you don’t know why not?
If that’s the case, I’d emphasize this again:
“The main thing is that you speak what you get, no matter what it sounds like. Don’t worry about that. It can be a language of men or of angels (1 Cor. 13). The main thing is to say what you get.”
Jeff Fenske
This video might help too: http://onecanhappen.com/2010/08/23/lonniemackley-how-to-speak-in-tongues-as-the-holy-spirit-enables-you
Mariana
I don’t call the tongues baptism either.
What evidences of the baptism are there, isn’t the evidence mainly and foremost internal. That you know! That you know! That you KNOW.
When you are filled with the Holy Spirit, you are telling me, you may not know about it?
Jeff Fenske
Mariana,
Practically speaking, everyone who is born-again has the Holy Spirit in them. So they can hear God’s voice and be led by the Spirit in many ways, even by feelings. There are also demons who can give us feelings and speak to us if we don’t get serious about overcoming sin through prayer, forgiving and holiness — “not giving the Devil a place.”
Praying in tongues generally has nothing to do with a feeling. However, if we have demons affecting us, praying in tongues will often free us from the demons so we’ll feel more free, because we’re no longer oppressed by that spirit (or those spirits). But that’s not being “filled with the Holy Spirit.”
Then there is “And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit.” That’s probably a feeling, like:
Jesus in John 15:10-11:
“If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and remain in his love. I have spoken these things to you, that my joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be made full.”
This will be a feeling, for sure. Jesus in John 17 — ‘ONE’ happening!:
Not for these only do I pray, but for those also who believe in me through their word, that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that you sent me.
The glory which you have given me, I have given to them; that they may be one, even as we are one; I in them, and you in me, that they may be perfected into one; that the world may know that you sent me, and loved them, even as you loved me. Father, I desire that they also whom you have given me be with me where I am, that they may see my glory, which you have given me, for you loved me before the foundation of the world.
Righteous Father, the world hasn’t known you, but I knew you; and these knew that you sent me. I made known to them your name, and will make it known; that the love with which you loved me may be in them, and I in them.”
This happened on Pentecost, and has happened many times since, but not very much lately, because the sin in the church is so great! My heart is to see ‘ONE’ happen, and for it to stay this time.
If we’re right with God, He will fill us when we get in serious, dire straits too. He’ll always give us a way out, a way to overcome so we never have to sin, He said. This may involve His presence giving us strength through tremendous feelings.
There is a principle in 2 Cor. 1: when the sufferings of Christ flow, His comfort flows. Corrie talks about that here:
CORRIE TEN BOOM: PREPARED For The COMING TRIBULATION — “Daddy, I am afraid that I will never be STRONG ENOUGH TO BE A MARTYR for Jesus Christ.” My father said, “OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN KNOWS when you will need the strength…. HE WILL SUPPLY ALL YOU NEED – JUST IN TIME.“
Those are some ideas about being filled with the Holy Spirit that I have.
Jeff