From: Revival School
The DEPRESSION HAS BEGUN
-by Andrew Strom.
Ten months ago in November 2007 while preaching in Wisconsin
USA, I felt a strong unction from the Holy Spirit to speak about
the future of the United States and the imminent Crash. As often
happens under that kind of anointing, a real boldness came over
me, and for the first time I found myself clearly putting a “date”
on the coming financial Depression – something I had never done
before – except in the vaguest of terms. I found myself predicting
that tragically within six months America would be in Recession,
and within 12 months the actual Depression would begin.
(-This audio is on our website – http://www.revivalschool.com )
So let us look at the evidence. It is now ten months later. Has the
Depression begun? Sadly the answer has to be “Yes”. In the last
two weeks the two largest mortgage giants in the world (Fannie
Mae & Freddie Mac) failed, the largest Insurance Company on earth
crashed (all taken over by the US Government), Lehman Brothers
went bankrupt (almost taking the entire financial system with it),
Money Markets reeled, the two remaining giant Investment banks
sought protection as “holding banks” – which means the end of
Wall Street as we know it, etc, etc. Stocks are in turmoil, Oil leapt
on Monday by the most ever recorded, gold is volatile – and on it
goes. -The most shattering two weeks since the Great Depression.
Meanwhile the US Treasury is seeking 700 billion dollars in a
forlorn effort to put Humpty back together again – tragically too late.
THERE ARE “JONAHS” on THE BOAT
Why is this storm hitting America at this time? There are certainly
many reasons – most of which we have discussed before. But let
me put something else before you that I believe God spoke to me
not long ago:- There are “Jonahs” on the boat – and they are
sending the nation down.
Who are these Jonahs? I believe they are the “prophets” of America
who will not preach the truth – who sleep comfortably in the bowels
of the nation while chaos reigns all around them. Too afraid to
deliver God’s word ‘Repent’, they run the other way – toward smooth
talk and pleasant sayings – “Peace peace” when there is no peace.
And the depths of this great crisis can be laid directly at their door.
Yes – that’s right. A big reason why the ship of America is sinking
is because her prophets ran away from their God-given task and
message at the crucial moment.
If only these prophets had preached the TRUTH when the nation
so desperately needed to hear it. If only they had begun – way
back in the 1980’s – to call the lukewarm church to repentance,
to rebuke the people for their love of money, their greed, their sin.
But no – the siren call of “popularity” was too strong. The call of
“grace, grace”, of mass acceptance, of big reputations and even
bigger offerings. And so they sold out. And now they sleep bliss-
fully in the midst of the ship, while the storm whips to fury all
around. How do you sleep, O Jonahs, who would not cry “Repent”?
And it is not just the “prophets” either. It is the televangelists too.
Caught up in a world of fakery, hype and money-grubbing unseen
in the church since the Dark Ages, these hucksters are spreading
their garbage to every Third World Revival nation around the globe.
Greed, manipulation and pride on a scale that only America could
generate. Where is your shame, O charlatans of greed?
And so God is forced to act. And just like Jonah, the storm will
not abate until the wayward preachers are thrown overboard. Until
America is rid of these international thieves and prostitutes, she
is finished. And she will not recover until they are gone.
You see, it is not just the leaders who are at fault here. It is also
the people, who “love to have it so”. And thus until the heart of the
people is scourged and purged they will accomodate the “Jonahs” –
even seeking more of their ear-tickling fables to comfort themselves
in this time of breaking.
Until the heart of American greed is shattered – until her people
act of their own volition to throw these Jonahs overboard – this
storm will go on and on. In fact, it is about to grow a whole lot worse.
Mark my words, America: Until you remove these Jonahs, your
nation cannot recover. They have held the whole world in thrall by
their apostasy. And God cannot have it so any more. How long will
it take you to realize? How long will it take you to act?
THROW THE JONAHS OVERBOARD and be done with them!!
Only then will this mother of all storms subside.
-Comments welcome. -Send to- prophetic@revivalschool.com
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God bless you all,
Andrew Strom.
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Related:
ECONOMIC JUDGMENT IS IMMINENT – 4 PREDICTIONS, by Andrew Strom [Four words from 2006 & 2007 predicting an imminent economic collapse in the USA]
From Andrew Strom: TWO 1990’s VISIONS of THE CRASH
Chief Economist: It’s A Depression
Frosty Wooldridge: Demise of America — “Americans have been ‘enstupidated’ … People don’t want TO BE FREE”
bentcrude
interesting.
Gloria Vittner
I have been reading Andrew Strom for some time; I have found him honest, trustworthy. I believe he hears the Holy Spirit and his words have come and are now coming to pass. Pay attention. Glo
kashicat
Anyone who has been watching how corporations have taken over more and more functions in the world, with less and less regulation and control, has seen this coming for years.
Coincidences happen a lot. There have been dire religious soothsayers predicting stuff like this for months, nay years, ever since I was a fundamentalist in the 80s. Sooner or later, someone is bound to coincidentally and accidentally happen upon the right date.
Andrew Strom got lucky. IF this is a Depression, which it isn’t yet, by any standards.
But really, anyone with a rational brain has known that if we let capitalism be the one guiding principle running the world for long enough, it would come close to destroying the world.
Eight years of acceleration of that capitalist cronyism, by the oh-so-“godly” Bush and his cronies, and this result was inevitable.
Funny that Bushie and his pals all claimed God was speaking to them too.
Carolina Maine
I think you meant “umption” not “unction”
Victor
Unlike the Biblical prophets who never tried to get glory for themsleves this article is wrote by a person who is very obviously trying to toot their own horn.
When Joseph went before Pharoh he humbly said:
(Genesis 41:16) “I need not be considered! God will announce welfare to Phar′aoh.”
Or when Daniel went before Nebuchadnezzar he humbly told the king:
(Daniel 2:29-30) And as for me, it is not through any wisdom that exists in me more than in any others alive that this secret is revealed to me, except to the intent that the interpretation may be made known to the king himself and that the thoughts of your heart you may know.
Whenever I hear a supposed prophet speaking for God it is never about giving God glory, it is always about atracting attention to themself. Not once in this article do I find a single scripture quoted, or any glory given to anyone but the author giving it to himself.
Now long before this “prophet” felt special and had some type of supposed supernatural revelation, I could have told you the economy was in bad shape and that we were heading for a recession. Now if you could predict that the political governments are about to turn upon Christendom and all false religion and completely destroy her, then that would be something. But you have no idea of what is about to befall mankind.
(Ezekiel 12:2) Son of man, in the midst of a rebellious house is where you are dwelling, that have eyes to see but they actually do not see, that have ears to hear but they actually do not hear,. . .
Jay
One great thing about predicting the future from the Bible is that you can be sure you will always be right if you read correctly and have the Holy Spirit guiding and teaching you. Tooting ones own horn because they were able to set a date is yet another issue. The part about Jonah types needing to be thrown overboard because they will not call for repentance is also right and is really the main issue here.
Jeff Fenske
I hear more frustration than horn tooting.
From: Andrew Strom is Leaving Us—Not Having Seen the Revival Come
This is “the heart of a shepherd,” y’all.
‘ONE’ Can Happen!
Jeff Fenske
steve
Depression? Eyes rolling.
What a bunch of crap. Must be Satin talking to this Storm trooper bible thumper cause the real GOD would get it right. When this phoney preacher meets Jesus its gonna be a long long loooong hot and humid eternity for this doom and gloom Storm trooper. And that’s my prediction.
Warren Curtis-Smith
Hi Andrew, I appreciate your enthusiasm for prophecy and if Christians got a bit more up and go that would be great. I agree with you that we are living in the last days and that the church is plagued with false prophets and teachers. However there is a huge lack in leaders like yourself to have based their knowledge on being first able to divide the word of truth.2Tim.2v15 A basic requirement before launching off into the vast ocean of theology. It is not a matter of your critics not listening to your side of the story and having preconceived views (perhaps true in some cases but not all) but some of these views come from Christians who have learnt to rightly divide the word of God. It is common for revivalists like yourself to quote scripture from the Old Testament out of context and when defending your position leave out the very part of the scripture that does not support your view. Such as Joel 2v32-3v1 These verses tell us where the outpouring is to take place and if it meant on all human flesh of the world everyone would have to be in the area of Jerusalem and Mt.Zion at the time of pouring. This also brings a problem in the character of God. It would mean that man’s choice to follow the Lord by free will would be overthrown and he would be overpowered by an irresistible force of God’s Holy Spirit sweeping him into the kingdom. However this is prophesied for the nation Israel when Christ returns and not before as the revivalists try to prove. It would appear to me that you are a post-tribulation rapture believer. That is if you do believe in the rapture. (not all prophets do) Here I see a major problem. If Jesus were to rescue the righteous through rapture at the end of the tribulation every righteous soul would receive a resurrection body 1Cor.15v51-53 Then after meeting Jesus in the clouds come immediately back down to earth. All the unrighteous would then be judged and sent to eternal punishment. Matt.25v46. All the remaining people would have resurrection bodies. Jesus said there is no marriage in the resurrection state therefore there will be no mortals left to repopulate the earth as found in the OT prophets such as Isaiah 65v20-23 If there is nobody to repopulate the earth Jesus is then left without a kingdom. Just a whole bunch of resurrected souls called priests with no one to minister to on the earth. this would make it very hard for satan ti find a vast army after the 1000 years to march upon Jerusalem. Anyway that is my 2 cents worth. I hope you find it challenging and don’t throw it out without pondering on some of these truths. I do like your zeal for the Lord.
May God bless you
Warren Curtis-Smith
rpm1122
This might be slightly blasphemous here, but if you want to check ou the astroogical perspective on Palin, McCain, Obama and the economic meltdown, go to http://www.robertphoenix.com
Maria & Greg
Are the Jonahs in America really just the televangelists and “false prophets”?
Aren’t they also the millions of Americans who give them audience and pay homage to them.
While in America at least 1.35 million children are homeless during a year’s time On any given day 800,000 people are homeless in the United States, including 200,000 children in homeless
families. Families with children are among the fastest growing segment of the homeless population Most children living with homeless parents are very young (42% are under the age of 6 years)
Now that’s a huge unevangelized population. Why are American Christians not reaching them with the gospel, with shelter, with a bed and with employment?
I’ll tell you why. Because there is no fame or glory in it. There is no financial return. In fact there will be cost and hard work. But isn’t that the gospel? It’s mean’t to cost us isn’t it?
America will have the visitation from God she so desperately needs if every Christian became a “living epistle” and opened the door of her home and wallet to this people group. If each middle class Christian American brought one homeless person to Christ and stayed with that person until complete healing and restoration, you would then have your revival. That would be revival. But no, you self seeking Americans have left it up to your Government agencies and they don’t have the gospel. But you do, don’t you? Shame on you who have the gospel. REPENT!!! Perhaps the Lord will have mercy on you or perhaps He will not. Have you no fear of God? You sit and debate over “doctrines of men” and “heresy” and “eschatology” while millions of unevangelized homeless are already living in hell.
Perhaps Andrew you should have preached this message while in America. It’s not a popular message is it? And most comfortable American Christians don’t want to hear it. It’s too pure, too simple, too holy. Too unworldly, too other wordly.
You complain about rising food prices & petrol costs and interest rates. How about complaining about living with rats. Try this one if your’e a young girl living on the streets. “Will I get raped tonight? Will I get beaten tonight?” If you’re a mother on the streets. It’s not, “am I giving my children the best education?” It’s , “can I keep my children alive tonight? Can I keep them dry and warm? Can they eat today? Can I protect my children from the predators that roam the streets? How can I keep awake all night so I can watch them and protect them?”
Soon many of you reading this will be homeless. This is your judgement America. It is homelessness because you who were mean’t to house and feed the world, both spiritually and naturally, have failed. You even failed your own back yard. So homelessness is now upon you. Hunger is soon to follow. After that will be an acceleration in lawlessness and fear, the like you have never seen before.
Show mercy now so that when your time comes mercy will be shown you.
.”For I am jealous over you with a godly jealousy: for I espoused you to one husband, that I might present you as a pure virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve in his craftiness, your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity and the purity that is in Christ.” 2 Corinthians 11:2-3
1 John 2:15, 16 “Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world.
I repeat…the word today for American Christians is ….”Show mercy now to those who are poor so that when your time of poverty comes mercy will be shown you”
That word is where your hope lies.
He is a God that sees and knows all things. There is no thought, no action and no inaction that goes unmissed by Him.
You know who we are Andrew, and the message my husband and I bring. We are that message. It is a part of us.
Andrew, have you already rejected the message?
Maria & Greg
Here is a true story:
There was a solo mother in a church who feared God and loved her 2 children. Her oldest son was born with a very rare skin disease called Harlequin Ichthyosis. An incurable, genetic skin condition where the skin grows far faster than normal. The whole body becomes completely encased in a very thickened, scaly suit of skin armour. The skin becomes very tight causing restriction of movement of the arms and legs and, particularly, the fingers and toes. 1 in a million children are affected by this genetic skin disease. Life expectancy is short.
Every day for 2 hours his mother went through a life-saving ritual of scrubbing, bathing and creaming to keep his skin growth under control.
Her son was in much pain. He could not participate in normal physical activities. Even walking was very painful for him.
She lived below the poverty line as she paid for her son to attend the Christian school the church provided.
One day she told her friend how she couldn’t pay the last of her son’s school fees. Her friend said to her “I will pay your son’s school fees.” After church her friend went to the principal and said to him “I would like to pay for the boy’s school fees. She took out her cheque book and asked him ‘How much are they, I will write you the cheque now?”. He said ‘$120. But you can’t pay for them because his mother doesn’t tithe.” The friend said “I must, the lord has told me to do this.” She wrote him the cheque for $120. As she walked away the Lord said to her, “You are to no longer tithe to this church but to give as my Spirit leads you”.
Not longer after that she left that town and went back to her hometown to train as a nurse. She attended another church. She was a student and was only on a small bursary. She saved her 10% tithe and waited for the Holy Spirit to lead her. There was a Christian solo mother in her nursing class who also attended the same church. Her nursing friend also feared God and loved her 2 children. She worked very hard to provide for her children and become a nurse so she could give them a better life.
Her nursing friend was having trouble with her car and it was in the garage. This Sunday she went to church and the pastor was preaching about how the church needed to give more to pay off the massive church building. He had placed huge graphs on the wall showing how the mortgage would decrease every year if so much was paid off.
After church she saw her nursing friend. The Lord told her she was to pay her car bill. She said to her “The Lord has told me I am to pay your car bill now, how much is it?” She said “It is $120 and I can’t take it out of the garage until I pay the bill.” She had exactly $120 in her cheque account. She wrote the cheque out for the exact amount of $120.
As she walked away the lord said to her “Judgement has come into my house because they have made it a den of thieves and it is to be a house of prayer”.
She did not know then the significance of the number 120. The number meaning righteousness and judgement.
Briefly:
The last time she saw her friend’s son with the skin disease was when he was 18 years old. He loved the Lord with all his heart and was just about to leave for the mission field.
It was a miracle this beautiful boy had even lived to that age. This was due to his mother’s devotion to the Lord and to her son.
What I want to say here, is to give as the Holy Spirit leads because only He knows what we are truly giving into and the purposes He has for the recipient. Secondly, both were solo mothers/widows who loved the Lord and church members did not consider them worthy of her giving. Thirdly, God’s people are under judgement now because they have not given as He has directed- to the poor, to the fatherless and to the widows. They have only given in order to get.
I would say again, the only hope for American Christians is to show mercy to those who are poor now so that when your time of poverty comes mercy will be shown to you.
Jim
Maria and Greg said:
“You sit and debate over “doctrines of men” and “heresy” and “eschatology” while millions of unevangelized homeless are already living in hell.”
Um, Andrew preached and lived a strong message of helping the homeless. I am in no way speaking for or against his ministry here, but please get your facts straight before posting such things. I do agree with what you are saying about caring for the poor 100% but you have falsely accused Andrew on this manner which shows you are speaking from your flesh.
Also, the homeless are not living in hell, I spend much of my free time on the streets with them, they are still subjected to Gods common grace including the countless shelters and food kitchens around the city. Hell will be eternal torment in a lake of fire, cut off from any grace or hope, not a life on the streets.
If you truly love the Lord Jesus, please be more careful of your words, this is a lesson I am learning too.
-Jim (www.fleebabylon.com)
Maria & Greg
I’ve experienced this “literalism” and “trickery” before. The term “hell” was used figuratively here.
As far as the soup kitchens and shelters go, I’m not fully persuaded. I’m aware of the many soup kitchens and shelters in America. We have them here in New Zealand too. And while they are very helpful in meeting the immediate needs of the homeless I have found them quite ineffective in the furtherance of the gospel. In fact many are counter productive in assisting these people back to that place of self respect and dignity that Jesus so desires for them. God is in pain over this you know.
Over the years, I’ve seen quite a few homeless people dedicate their lives to Jesus and receive restoration when I’ve brought them into my home and cared and shared with them this way. While it was hard work the joy was immeasurable. God’s presence was constant and His enabling never failed us once. Due to having young children and a husband to care for I don’t do this to the same extent as I use to. Nowhere near it actually. I remember how God truly provided for us all. Our cups were always full and running over. I cannot begin to tell you the goodness of God and how He honours those that hear Him and obey Him in this. He showed up for these broken and wounded people in the most remarkable ways. I’ve been greatly blessed to see the formation of some of the most beautiful saints and dearest friends that have come from the gutter and have gone on to bring many to the knowledge and love of Jesus.
The truth is, for those who read this and hear Him and obey Him, there will be many ups and downs and many, many testings and dealings. This is not for the faint hearted. Sometimes you have to be very firm. It’s like raising children. Many workers get discouraged and give up before they see the fruit because it is a hard field to labour in. I understand this. If you are reading this and are one of those please repent. And remember, most aren’t even willing to try. You have done well to even go there. He is gracious and will forgive you and lead you once again.
I ask you to ask God for a revelation of His love towards the homeless and the poor. When you truly get His heart and mind on this matter you will never be the same person again. I know many are not in a position to bring homeless people into their homes due to having young children or they are elderly or sick. But please pray, especially for labourers into this field.
You need to be lead by the Holy Spirit in bringing the homeless in. There are a lot of time wasters out there. When you are lead by Him you will find every one of them will have a sincere dedication to Christ and your cup will always be full and running over no matter what the hardships are. The worship and gratitude these ones have towards our Lord will be your joy. To see our Father, the one we love so much, loved and adored by them. Comfortable, Westernised Christians tend to take the Lord and His many blessings for granted. The unloved, the abandoned, the poor do not. HE WHO HAS BEEN FORGIVEN MUCH LOVES MUCH.
God has revealed to me that you should not preach about something unless you are prepared to live it and do it. Your words have no power otherwise and it is not at all pleasing to Him. This is what it means to be a “living epistle”. Also you don’t often get to see the fruit until many years later. The Lord has taught me to see them “as the finished work of Calvary” well before I saw the fruit. I really never saw them as others did. I saw them as whole before the manifestations of that wholeness were visible. This was always of Him and by revelation. When He gives you this it keeps your enthusiasm up. I suppose that would be called faith and love.
Jim, have you ever been homeless? Have you ever served Jesus in the way I have just talked about? I don’t mean soup kitchens or shelters. But that has a place. Remember this is about full restoration, dignity, sanity, employment etc. I won’t make assumptions here because you just may have done this. But if you have, then all I have just said will make sense to you and you will not find it offensive.
You do not know when your poverty will come.
If you have an ear to hear then the Holy Spirit will lead you. If you show mercy now to the poor and wounded when your time of poverty comes mercy will be shown to you. This is the word the Lord has given me. This is what is on His heart and He has written it on my heart.
Andrew says:
“Until the heart of American greed is shattered – until her people
act of their own volition to throw these Jonahs overboard – this
storm will go on and on. In fact, it is about to grow a whole lot worse.
Mark my words, America: Until you remove these Jonahs, your
nation cannot recover. ‘
No Andrew. You are putting the cart before the horse. Americans and many others need to remove “Jonah” from their own hearts first. Once we have removed the log from our own eye we will see clearly enough to remove the splinter that is in our brother’s eye.
I’m sorry Andrew, this isn’t just about exposing the prosperity teachers, the televangelists and the “false prophets”. Their works have been evident to most sincere believers for a long time now. Also, be careful with that label “false prophet”. You may even be one yourself and don’t know it. Most don’t know they are deceived. That’s the very nature of deception. The true seed of deception is buried deep in the heart and mind of a man. But I’ve said all this to you before.
And this isn’t about proving yourself. As mentioned by others, anyone can read and fore read the economic climate. When you are secure in Him you can walk in transparency (in the light as He is in the light) and you have nothing to prove to anyone. Not even to yourself.
Also this gospel which has the flavour of a gospel of “perfection” is a “try hard” behavioural gospel. Many of us 20th Century Christians have inherited it at a subconscious level equally as we have the “prosperity gospel” and don’t even know it. To me, it does not have the ring of truth to it. It truly is just “behavioural Christianity”. It is a deception in itself and has it’s own dangers in taking us away from the simplicity and purity of the gospel.
God desires us to be honest first and then above all things be perfect in love. We already have a perfect God. That meets the need for perfection in us. He desires truth and perfection in the inward parts. That’s what He means by “Be ye perfect as my heavenly Father is perfect”. Jesus is the only innocent one. None of us are innocent but us humans have a great need for innocence. That is why we are always justifying ourselves, proving ourselves and judging others with the “letter”. Once we understand the vicarious nature of Jesus, Him in our place, we are enabled to look at ourselves and others with honesty and compassion, through Calvary. Only a deep, personal and ongoing revelation of the cross can do this. We are now free to confess sin, daily, and walk in the light as He is in the light and the blood of Jesus cleanses us continually. Then and only then can we have fellowship with Him and one with another. And then and only then will America and many of us recover.
Now we are compelled by His love to preach and minister the gospel. There is our motivation. I fear Andrew and many Americans and comfortable Christians have departed from this even though you preach otherwise. The true church only enters the Kingdom through tribulation. Sometimes that tribulation is the coming out of the dark night of our own self promoting and self seeking souls.
Maria & Greg
Jim…..`”Um, Andrew preached and lived a strong message of helping the homeless. I am in no way speaking for or against his ministry here…… but you have falsely accused Andrew on this manner which shows you are speaking from your flesh.”
I’m afraid Andrew’s forum contradicted his teachings and he knows what I’m talking about.
At present all sincere believers are in a time of purging Jim, so the greater works can be done. And His last days purposes will be fulfilled. This is His day, not ours. The end of all flesh. Andrew, like myself and you, are not exempt from this. It is His love for us and His harvest. It isn’t easy.
Daniel 6:22 My God hath sent his angel, and hath shut the lions’ mouths, that they have not hurt me: forasmuch as before him innocency was found in me; and also before thee, O king, have I done no hurt.
After the purification of all Daniel’s feelings in the fiery furnace (kamaloka), the lower passions are no longer able to harm Daniel. This is borne out of his time in the lion’s den (the lion is a picture of the lower human passions.) And by the angel shutting their mouths, for Daniel had been found innocent before God.
Now this is about His wonderful innocence not ours.
This is the purging. Aren’t we a long way off? Not just America.
I don’t expect to be understood. It is a hard sound at present for many of us in the Western world. Much harder than most of us know. We will be made much wiser through the many fires that are about to come. For my husband and I, we are already in the fire and have been for some time. This is why we talk the way we do and contradict so much of what we see and hear. There is so much wood, stubble and hay in the western world.
Bless you in his wonderful name.
Maria.
Jeff Fenske
Dear Maria,
I appreciate your desire for all who say they’re Christians to be Biblical in how we treat the poor, but I think you’re barking up the wrong tree here.
For starters, the most convicting message I’ve ever heard on this subject is free-to-listen-to-at-Andrew’s-site audio from a speaker Andrew invited to speak at a conference he held.
Of all people, I think Andrew has pondered what his role is to be regarding the message of ministering to the poor. And from what he’s said, I think he’s directly done this much more than you realize.
However, even if he hasn’t majored on doing this hands-on-directly, that wouldn’t necessarily make him disobedient, or anyone else for that matter. You are not the Holy Spirit. You don’t know what Andrew’s been called to do and what he is responsible for doing. We’re supposed to be led by the Spirit, and those who are led by the Spirit are the children of God. It isn’t fruitful to bash people over the head who are truly running with God has called them to do, expecting them to major on something else.
I don’t agree with Andrew on everything, but I think he is far more balanced and obedient to Christ than you give him credit for. Praise God! I think he’s a good example to us all.
According to 1 Cor. 12, especially, we all have different gifts and graces. Andrew is clearly called to be a prophet. Biblically, some prophets have even been called to do just one thing. Who are you to say he’s disobeying? How many poor people would actually be helped if people heeded Andrew’s message to repent and get right with people?
Millions.
According to 1 Cor. 12, some people have the gift of helps. Maybe you do, but my guess is that gift is probably far down the list in what God has equipped Andrew for. You’re putting a burden on Him that the Holy Spirit isn’t—or at least to the degree.
There are different ways to help the poor. For example, one of the ways is to not destroy countries, causing many who weren’t dead or maimed or poor before to now be dead maimed or poor.
Most evangelicals are supporting this very thing. It’s amazing how so many evangelicals will scream murder when the unborn are killed (who will go to heaven), and then through the officials they elect and the policies they promote, they’ll kill children, mothers, fathers, and old people (many of whom will spend eternity in hell after we kill them or starve them to death through our sanctions).
Are you voting for McCain/Palin warrior ticket or the also pro-war Biden and Obama? If you are, your hands will be dirty. We can’t vote for evil. Did you vote for President Bush the first time? How about the second time, after you saw the atrosities he committed in Jesus’ name—which have turned millions away from even wanting anything to do with American Christianity?
How many homeless now exist who had homes before the kill-them-over-there wars were unleashed in the name of Christ and liberation?
Right now, I see that there are churches that are calling for 40-day fasts for America to stop killing the unborn, when these very same people are killing the unborn and born throughout the world by supporting leaders who say they are pro-life but who are despicable?
Do you know that the American military is being used to help extinguish those who oppose Satan’s new world order, so that not only will many become homeless, but many of us may lose our heads as well—brought on to a large degree by the evangelicals who support the likes of George Bush no matter what?
There are many ways to help the poor and to help more from becoming poor, and what is Andrew’s main message? Repentance.
How many evangelical pastors have publicly repented for supporting kill-them-over-there policies? I don’t know of any. Most of these pastors aren’t teaching the people how to be led by the Holy Spirit and to love the people over there as much as they love themselves, Jesus’ way. And if McCain/Palin get in, it’s largely because of unrepentant American pastors who teach false doctrine, giving people an illusion that they’re going to heaven when they’re not, if they don’t obey the Spirit within and the greatest two commandments.
There are different ways to love and minister to the poor. God help us before we continue our filthiness by electing another regime that will use American technology to cause millions of more in other countries to be homeless, and millions more here too.
How many pastors voted for the Presidential candidate who actually acts Christian, Ron Paul? Did you? If Ron Paul were elected, we would be about to reverse the intentionally failing economy that is causing so many homeless here in the States. And we wouldn’t be bullying our way around the world either.
What we need is pure hearts, demon-free hearts, not willfully sinning in any area so we can clearly hear and obey what the Holy Spirit is actually telling us individually and collectively.
We need Jesus to be head of the church again. Then those who are called to do this and that will, and we’ll be ONE. One love!
Please consider the balance here.
Thank you, Andrew, for telling it like it is—finding your own balance!
ONE can happen as we live and rest in Him, not doing our own thing, but what we are personally called to do.
1 Cor. 12:
Freedom in Christ to be who we really are and what we are given the passion to do.
May we have grace with one another, and love will happen in our midst as we all become ONE — Jesus’ heart-cry for His body — functioning in their unique gifts — not putting trips on each other.
Bless you!
Jeff Fenske
Maria & Greg
Firstly Jeff, I am not an American but a New Zealander so I don’t vote in your country. Thank you for that very interesting and deeply sad information in current American politics. What manipulative men will use His wonderful name for is beyond belief.
I know Andrew is not called to the homeless or to the streets. I’ve always known this….since I first heard him preach here in New Zealand in 2003. He has also made it clear to me he is not called to our country but overseas.
This I was not aware of until he told me. I certainly have no comments on that. I’m not sure why you, like him, keep hearing things I’ve never said, do you?
My comments on the homeless were mostly intended for those God has purposed to read them. Those who are truly called to this will have an ear to hear and be awakened by His love for them and will have the witness as they read. It is a call to his servants to go out to the hi ways and bi ways. God will use it to motivate his servants to go out with the invitations. They will not be offended by it Jeff.
When the church is under persecution as the Chinese church was in the 80’s they did not go around saying “I don’t have a ministry of helps” “I don’t need to give of my prayers or my time or my food, or my water, or my home, or my money.” They had all things in common. Moses made it quite clear we were all to give to the fatherless, the widow and the Levite. That is to all of us…not just to the “ministry of helps”. Jesus made it clear we were to make disciples of men. All are called to the gospel, prophet included. I can most definitely assure you the prophet would be the first to say this about himself.
If you have a spare bed in your house and are able, caring for one homeless person is not a “ministry” as such but rather an expression of love for God who so cares for us. It is mercy. It is an act of gratitude and it will free you much from yourself and the things of this world and most importantly it will help to prepare you for what is about to come. It is a blessing not a burden. But be lead by the Holy Spirit. There are time wasters. Sometimes I would wait weeks before the Lord would quicken me to this one or that one. What is important is exposure. Expose yourself to the needs of the homeless first and then let the Holy spirit lead you. America has so failed her mission. Listen carefully. He will never lead you where His grace cannot keep you.
I don’t have a particular ministry of helps. It is a wonderful ministry. And neither is my present calling specifically to evangelism in the streets. An intercessor will not ask others to do what they can do themselves. I really can’t be bothered explaining all this here. I know my calling. It is also important for me to obey the Holy Spirit as He leads me now. We all have our place and I am fulfilling my calling right now even as I’m writing this. There is correction in the Body of Christ He has called me to first. This is important if I want to see God visit the poor and broken in my beloved country of New Zealand whom I am called to.
New Zealand is called as a missionary sending nation to the some of the darkest and most fearful places in the world. As America is disobeying God in her call so is New Zealand. We are a nation at ease and as Jonah we are fit to be thrown overboard. What will it take to wake us up? Where your love is, is where your call is. I love my country, the people, particularly Maori. It is very important in these last days to know your place and function in it. I am not asking anyone to function as an intercessor. This is not possible unless you are called. But as an intercessor we are so often given the heart and mind of God on certain matters. We are not free until the position is gained and much of that depends upon our surrender and sanctification.
God is a God of order. And as you said He is the head of the church. We will be seeing His ranking and His order for His purposes in the near future. Not just yet. Some of these men you and others are rightly rebuking now, they will repent and be purified. We are in for some wonderful surprises. He is a wise God indeed. I just recently heard, that in the Hebrew, the word “wonderful” means “surprise”. Or was it in Greek?
At present Christians like the world are rocking to and fro like a drunk man because Jesus isn’t our centre. We have too many extremes. From literalism to mysticism. From “too many works” to “no works”. From selfishness to rescuing. King Solomon said “a man of wisdom will avoid all extremes”. An unequal balance is not pleasing to Him at all. He just desires to be our centre. When He is our centre He is our peace.
Andrew is an excellent teacher/preacher and writer whom God has given some understanding of His mind and heart as all teachers need to have if they are going to preach. Some he has received by revelation but mostly by learning. This is commendable. He is an expert on revival history and God has used him to draw our attention to some important lost truths. Very few would deny this. He is also an excellent administrator and accountant who understands the world of finance and can pass this information on to those of us who don’t understand the language of large banking institutions. I would suspect this is his formal training. He is very good at it.
If you have ears to hear you may learn something from what I write.
Prophets do not receive from God by calculation but rather by revelation. I believe someone further up this post drew our attention to this. And did it very well, so there is no need to say anymore on the biblical history of this. I love to hear God’s people speak truth. It is a great joy to me in these days of such apostacy.
Please do not elevate the “prophet” and his call. Next to the apostle it is the humblest and lowliest of all callings. And no flesh would truly desire this calling if he knew what it really mean’t. It is an extremely painful life and a great burden. I correct you and others, including Andrew, for making light of this and speaking of things you know little of.
A prophet would be very blessed indeed if in his entire lifetime he had one or two friends that could understand him or even know him. Can you say this about Andrew? He has many loyal and faithful friends and followers. True prophets do not. They simply do not. This is biblical.
The prophet is certainly known by God and that is all that matters to him. He rarely regards himself as a prophet but rather as someone who is cursed by God. I tell you, you could easily mistake him for a cursed man. That is the best way to describe him. A man that appears to be cursed.
It is very difficult for him to be earthly minded as he has been so caught up in heavenly visions and places. Remember he receives directly from God by revelation not calculation. His knowledge is not attained through books or the wisdom of others. It comes directly from the throne room of God. The bible is opened to him by revelation. God himself is his teacher. He is God’s man for the hour. He can see about 50 years ahead as though it is now. Such is the urgency. (But we know we do not have 50 years left of this world as we know it).
He sees and feels the terrible like no other. He hears from God and is directed by God in the most fearful and supernatural ways. It is not uncommon for him in those times to literally pee his pants. This I have witnessed. How God reduces and humbles him so.
He has great trouble putting these divine meetings and revelations with God into words. Sometimes they just won’t form in his mouth. We have wrongly assumed him as being the most eloquent of speakers but he is not. But often when in divine union with his God he speaks and sings a poetical language that just flows from the throne room of God and is so heavenly inspired and so beautiful. It even surprises himself. He will not be able to recapture this or repeat this again because it is a union, a language of love between him and his God alone. It is a truly holy moment. How our Father sustains him and loves him so. He is so free from the burden and the message in those times.
But he is never truly free until he speaks the message given him by revelation. He lives the message just as Moses did. This is no theoretical death but a real crucifixion with Christ, only the Holy Spirit can do this work in him. Crisis upon crisis is the painful process and also for those who love him. Even they can only walk with him so far. His true friendship and companionship is with God.
Just as Moses left Pharoah’s palace by his own volition to identify himself with his brethren in slavery and walk through the howling wilderness with them, so does the prophet. He is often both prophet and intercessor. Coming down from the summit Moses cries out for God’s mercy for them in their idolatry. Oh yes, the prophet is the message.
He must speak and when he does those who are close to him know that all manifestation of evil will abound around him. Sometimes you just long for him not to speak because you love him so much and you know when he does he will be stoned and cursed and hated. Many will deceitfully try to draw you from his side. I’m ashamed to say sometimes even you are tempted to tell him to shut his mouth. It is a painful life for those who love him and walk with him. But God also honours and enables those who honour him.
So he sits in silence much of the time, inwardly roaring like a lion and in much silent pain. But even when he sits in silence amongst his brethren they still manifest. Oh the poor man, he is bound by the message and the burden all his life and so much so he becomes the very message.
You can literally hear snakes hiss all around him, even by those who say they are among the brethren. His very life draws the pus and sickness out of all those who are serving their dead rotten flesh. How he hates all that opposes God. All that sits in the temple of God as though they are God. He will worship no other God. Not the god of self, not the god of money, not the god of respectability, not the god of religion, not the god of reputation, not the doctrines of men, not the praises of men, not the ways that seem right to men, not the wisdom and revelation given to men last century, or this century, not the kingdoms men build, not any earthly wisdom, no holy or righteous man, no humble or broken man will he praise. God will not allow him to do this and if he ever does he is immediately chastised. He will worship or praise no other God than the one true God. The God in whom he has pledged his life.
He would rather shrink back and die if he had the slightest inkling that any man thought good of him or spoke well of him. How he hates the praises of men. He truly knows his position. That he is the chief of all sinners. God has made him the weakest of all men. He truly is a meagre man on this earth. He is no giant and has no greatness. He knows he is born to worship God and bow to Him alone. He continually cries “God have mercy on me”. And I tell you, he needs to.
Friendship with God alone is all he desires. He aches and groans to be free from the burden as he goes about his daily duties. He bears it in his physical body, his very visage speaks of it and he is only free until he speaks it. He is truly burdened like no other.
Very few ever have ears to hear his message until he is long gone. He is hated by all. He can be the hardest of all men but is also the most compassionate of all men. He is a true servant. He is set apart. Literally set apart. You will not find guile in his mouth. He is so quick to see the true intentions of men’s hearts but so purely hopes and believes for the best and many while in his presence literally feel unclothed and naked. That is why they manifest so even when he is silent ….I can hear them hiss…”shut up, shut up, shut up. Will someone shut him up. He is too meagre a man to speak thus.”.
His whole life from the start to the finish is prophetic. It is a simile.
No, I am not a prophet. But I am called in intercession for one. Shamefully, I have denied it for my own safety fearing the many reproaches of men. He would be reluctant for me to publicly call him this.
Bless you,
Maria.
Maria & Greg
How right you are Jeff….This is “the heart of a shepherd, y’all.” Does Andrew know this yet? Is he walking in the shoes that God has specifically designed for him? A greater annointing and freedom will come when he does.
This is not putting a trip on others. But we certainly will trip over if we aren’t wearing the right shoes. Nobody wants to see that happen to our brethren in the Body of Christ. God desires us to all know our function and place so that we may be one.
Jeff Fenske
Maria,
I’ll post a response to your prophet? article soon. Also, I deleted your last post *only* because it is an article written by someone else in it’s entirety.
Firstly, I’d rather people not do this, and secondly, it may be a violation of copyright law.
If WordPress automatically disallows you from posting because one of your comments was deleted [not sure, this may or may not happen], please feel free to re-register under a different email address (even a fictitious one — I’ve heard that WordPress doesn’t check to see if they’re legit, and I don’t mind).
Thank you for commenting,
Jeff Fenske
Richard Neva
It took an atheist to predict the fall of American Capitalism and he wrote it years ago. His name, Karl Marx. The only solution is revolution of the workers and a state organized around socialism i.e. Marxist Communism. You can still worship your Gods in that system contrary to the lies the government spreads. Viva la revolucion! There is hope in Marxism! Read and be educated to the facts!
Maria & Greg
Sorry about that Jeff I was not thinking. I should have done a link.
Jeff Fenske
Richard,
Communism the answer?
Hogwash!
Communism is slavery on a national level. It’s reverse-freedom! The leaders decide everything, and leaders with that kind of power are usually demonically driven, not Holy Spirit led.
The problem with our Republic right now is that it will only work if the people are moral. And the root reason we’ve lost our morality to this great degree is pastors who’ve taught for many decades that we don’t have to be right with God and our neighbors (including overseas) in order to go to heaven.
We need a reformation of the Reformation and finally get it right.
The only hope for America is true repentance among the people.
Ron Paul was running. Did the Catholics and evangelicals vote for him? Hardly.
Chuck Baldwin is running now. Do any Catholics or evangelicals even talk about voting for him. Hardly any.
And then we have the country music bullying “rednecks,” of whom many consider themselves Christians; though, the music is filled with ludeness and self-centeredness.
God, Mom and apple pie — and lust, love mainly only America. They diss the Dixie Chicks because they stood against the unconstitutional and despicable Iraq war. Toby Keith openly sings about how it’s okay to commit adultery in Las Vegas, because it stays in Las Vegas. There is no fear of God. This is demon-driven, destroying the soul of America stuff!
He sings “The Angry (unforgiving, unChristlike) American,” saying the American way is to stick a boot up Iraqi’s [behinds]. And then he says: “God bless.”
And then many of these same ‘country’ music people will shamelessly sing hymns to God even while wearing seductive clothing (the women). And a lot of Americans actually listen to and watch this stuff! It’s disgusting!
Roger Waters truthfully sings: we’ve “amused ourselves to death.” Rock ‘n roll, in many cases may not be more godly, but at least they don’t try to present themselves as Christians when they sing “Highway to Hell.” And some artists are standing against the war and for human rights.
It’s our fault for not reading our Bibles carefully enough and following leaders who also haven’t.
We’re losing our country, and unless real repentance happens, few will go to heaven also.
The main problem with America is doctrinal. We’ve been doctrines-of-demons infiltrated.
What does the Bible really say about what real Christianity is and who the real Christians are?
The truth is in my article: Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — We Must Obey.
By the way, we should have never normalized free trade relations with China just for their lack of religious freedom alone.
Freedom!
Jeff Fenske
Jeff Fenske
Dear Maria,
You bring up many interesting points in your Andrew-can’t-be-a-prophet post. I’m indenting portions to which I’ll respond.
I could be wrong, but I don’t think Andrew and I need correction in this sense. Actually, it would be nice to be more understood someday and accepted as a necessary and useful members of the body of Christ—someday before the one-world government is fully in place and before so many more ‘Christians’ die and are surprised where they end up. But as I’ll share further down, I think prophetic people can limit their (our) own acceptance by their (our) unwillingness to forgive everyone, everywhere, no matter what…, 100%, from our whole heart, from the bottom of our hearts, no matter what.
Freedom!
Being a prophet is a function or gift just like being a pastor is. But every church has a pastor, hardly any have prophets. Or if they do they aren’t real prophets or they’re not allowed to do their job.
In some cases, the pastor is really a prophet, but that usually doesn’t work too well. We’re supposed to work as a team, but most pastors or apostles (head pastors that usually avoid the term) are usually not team players, thinking they can have a functioning, healthy church without insight and balance from those whom God gives them to help them see what they aren’t gifted to see.
There is some truth to this. True prophets are dissed by most church leaders [how many pastors invite Andrew to speak, or even read his material?], because we live in an age of hypocrisy and false doctrine, and most church leaders still think they can do real Christianity on their own without prophetic insight. And not only are churches tanking, but because of a lack of righteousness among “Christians,” so is America and most of the world. Pride goes before a fall. And this time the fall is HUGE!!!
You say it is simply not biblical for prophets to have more than a few friends. Perhaps this was true for the Old Testament prophets, but we are living in the post-Pentecost, we-all-have-the-Holy-Spirit-24/7 age. There isn’t a description for the NT prophet that supports what you say. The prophet is listed in the Ephesians 4 and 1 Corinthians lists though, as being essential parts of the body of Christ. There is no indication they are supposed to be off by themselves, ignored by other giftings.
I list the 1 Cor. list in an earlier comment above. Here is the Ephesians-4 list. Verses 11-16:
He gave some to be apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, shepherds [pastors] and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, to the work of serving, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a full grown man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we may no longer be children, tossed back and forth and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in craftiness, after the wiles of error; but speaking truth in love, we may grow up in all things into him, who is the head, Christ; from whom all the body, being fitted and knit together through that which every joint supplies, according to the working in measure of each individual part, makes the body increase to the building up of itself in love.
All of the five-fold ministries need to be fully functioning for this passage to be realized. Most pastors don’t even teach this anymore: “building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a full grown man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ….” This is the revival that Andrew and myself are talking about that should be normal, everyday Christianity. And it’s so frustrating to be rejected and ignored, knowing we have a big part of the truth that is keeping this from happening.
Any prophet that is challenging Christians in ways that bothers them is probably going to get James-3-cursed. And the more we hit the nail on the head and the more they dig in their heels instead of wanting to know the truth that will set them free, the more we’ll be hated and cursed.
But by man, not people. Just like Stephen was cursed and even stoned to death after he told the truth to the Pharisees, Saul (Paul) among them. It’s no different. The hate and anger is ferocious—these pastors not even knowing their own hearts—so busy doing things for God—to be seen by men.
Prophetic people need to be very patient and totally forgiving—longsuffering. We have no right to resent those who reject our message, even saying that we made it up; though, it’s very evident to myself, anyway, that the scripture is very clear that all liars will go to hell: “all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur….” Rev. 21:8
The hardest thing for me as a Christian, I think, is to forgive those from the bottom of my heart, always, who hate me and reject me just because I tried to help them succeed with what I believe God was showing me regarding their situation. I’ve watched so many sheep get unnecessarily hurt when the answer was always there. It’s so sad.
But at the same time, I need to realize that everyone has a free will, and I have no right to try to make anyone do anything. It’s hard for me to step back and watch them fall on their faces and make fools of themselves. And so many have gotten hurt…. And there are many that have told these abusive leaders the truth. They are responsible.
This Sarah Palin VP phenomenon is very interesting. In Anchorage, Alaska, where I live, we were close to having a revival many years ago. Enough good did happen that I think affected those in nearby Wasilla, who taught Sarah much of what she knows about Christianity.
But the whole thing fell apart. Anchorage is almost as carnal as many other cities, right now, at least on the self-centeredness scale. And Wasilla has huge problems spiritually and socially as well. Had certain church leaders in Anchorage gotten right with those they hurt, we would have had revival years ago, here, I think. And Sarah wouldn’t even had considered being John McCain’s VP, because John McCain is not really much of a maverick in the good sense of the word.
And imagine what would have happened had Sarah been taught that it’s never okay to kill people except when it’s clearly, beyond the shadow of a doubt in self-defense—only after all other options are exhausted. Now she says she wouldn’t even bat an eye, and she puts down Barack for saying he would talk with our so-called enemies.
And imagine had her pastors studied a bit, or let those who had studied teach Sarah about the history of how our CIA made those enemies. And that God is allowing judgment on America because of our unforgiveness and self-centeredness, not to mention our hate. And now it’s all coming down.
Will pastors now listen and repent, or do we have to fall even further. What will it take? How far do we have to fall?
Maria, back to what you said: “He rarely regards himself as a prophet but rather as someone who is cursed by God.”
Perhaps it seems like some of the OT prophets were cursed by God. Ezekiel having to lay on his side for 390 days, for example. But I imagine he’s at the highest of heights right now in heaven. And I don’t see evidence in the NT that post-Pentecost prophets, who have the Holy Spirit in them at all times to help them always forgive and walk free, releasing in their hearts those who hurt them and/or reject their message, have to mope around in the doldrums. The burden is there; the message is there; but we can now love those who curse us and wish evil on us. We now have the grace to fully forgive just like Jesus fully, from his heart forgave those who cursed and crucified him, and just like Stephen fully forgave from his heart those who hated and stoned him to death, nashing their teeth as they pelted him with rocks with all of their strength and fury.
We can now live out Jesus’ sermon on the mount. These passages being both from chapter 5 of Matthew:
11 “Blessed are you when people reproach you, persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12 Rejoice, and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven. For that is how they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Don’t even the tax collectors do the same? 47 If you only greet your friends, what more do you do than others? Don’t even the tax collectors do the same? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
It’s easy for prophetic people to feel sorry for ourselves because of how we’ve been rejected. Or we can move on and not worry about it. We can forgive and be free and let God deal with these people—never cursing back. “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.” And as Stephen: “Father, don’t hold this sin against them.”
If pastors really understood what it was and who those are they are rejecting, they wouldn’t. If they really knew their eternal fate, they wouldn’t. They’re even warned they’re going to get a stricter judgment and they still won’t listen to prophetic people who would help them actually walk in love.
It’s amazing, but I don’t have the strengths and weaknesses they have, so it’s wrong for me to be critical and upset when they don’t understand me.
I need to walk in love, myself, always having a forgiving heart, loving everyone no matter what. Jesus and Stephen really, genuinely loved the Pharisees, and all of us need to do the same. Partly, our attitude will get in the way of our own message, and also so our joy may be full.
I imagine Stephen as a man full of joy. And Jesus was amazing—and he had friends! Perhaps the greatest Jesus’ movie is “Matthew,” http://www.brucemarchiano.com/bio.php, with the awesome Bruce Marciano playing the joy-filled Jesus!! http://www.brucemarchiano.com/bio.php
I don’t know Andrew Strom personally, but I imagine that if he does have many friends, like you say, he has learned much of what I’ve just written and applied it to his life.
Perhaps some are called to just study the Bible alone. But I think God wants us to learn from many sources and people. Just studying the Bible and listening to God would be a pretty empty life, and can cause weirdness, especially when you see these people insisting that all Christians vote Republican. They’ve never done any research, yet they are experts because they read the Bible and hear God’s voice. But the fact is that God doesn’t speak to prophets all the time about all things, and He doesn’t want us to be sitting around waiting to hear all the time.
We’re supposed to be functioning members in the world, but not infected by the world. I’m at a point where I still get hardly any phone calls. They don’t want to get that close, but I know a lot of people now like me. And I like them. I expect great times to come and many of us to grow closer and closer together until ONE (John 17) really does happen. And us prophetic people just better not let unforgiveness towards anyone be what really kept the move of God from happening.
Maybe we weren’t approachable enough. Maybe we didn’t give people enough space. I know that’s been true with me on many occasions. We close our own doors. It’s easy for us to see their faults, and probably easy for them to see ours. So let’s us forgive and be free no matter what happens with them, and I think it will be contagious, spreading like wildfire!
So he sits in silence much of the time, inwardly roaring like a lion and in much silent pain. But even when he sits in silence amongst his brethren they still manifest. Oh the poor man, he is bound by the message and the burden all his life and so much so he becomes the very message.
You can literally hear snakes hiss all around him, even by those who say they are among the brethren. His very life draws the pus and sickness out of all those who are serving their dead rotten flesh.
Yep, I’ve been there, done that—felt all the curses. I would be dead if I didn’t know how to pray for those who are cursing me in tongues as well as now learning how to forgive.
But I think we can get to a place where we won’t even feel this anymore. The demons won’t stick at all because they’ll have no right to enter because we always love everyone no matter what—giving them space to do whatever with our message—not holding them accountable—being their friend. This is a beautiful thing!
Jesus did it. Stephen did it. We can all and we should all walk free, loving everyone from our innermost being, totally, all the time, no matter what! Then the James-3-curses from being convicted or whatever won’t stick. Mt. 18. And we will walk in love—“love beams.” The joy of the Lord is our strength, walking around as children of God, not worrying about what they think. Gentle—a man of God. Humble, not lording it over but power under, holding everyone in high esteem—even the most obnoxious sinners who are hurting thousands. “We must have grace. We must give up and be holy, walking in high esteem of those in the world—those who hurt.
Many parade around like everything is okay, but is it? They must be holy. And we can show them by our love, by giving them space, not judging because they go too slow or disobey, cutting them off.” God help us.
No, no, no, no, no. May it never be. We should never do this, and this is why prophets have a bad rap. Those who do this are in danger of judgment big-time. And they’ll never be happy deep within. Nor will they be a joy to be around.
We need to release and forgive all who curse us. If they want to do that this is up to them. God will deal with them. We should bless them, wishing them well, cheering for them! Not in the harm they do to others, but cheering for their release, so they can have joy now and eternal life too.
This hate thing has to go. Unforgiveness is the reason for 9/11 http://onecanhappen.com/category/why-911, and unforgiveness is destroying the church and this nation so the American church has become reverse-Christian, and the whole world is seeing it and doesn’t want anything to do with it.
If people don’t catch on to our message until after we die, maybe because they’re never learned to love us, probably because we haven’t been too loveable, then there is no hope for America and the world. Because I don’t think we have that much time before there no longer is America. Unless we repent, clean house, walk in love, vote for the next Ron Pauls, and stop bombing the world into oblivion as a way of solving our unforgiveness, lack-of-loving-our-‘enemies’-as-much-as-ourselves problem.
We must obey or we’re toast.
And when we’re walking in Light the way Jesus and Stephen walked in the light, no matter what happens, it’s all good!
I so long for that day when ONE will happen! May it happen soon, and may us prophetic people not get in the way by holding even one grudge.
I’m not totally there yet, but I’m determined to get to the promised land where we can all be free!
Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeee————–dom!!!!!!!!!!!!
God bless you all!
And Maria, thank you very much for your posts!
Jeff Fenske : )
Maria & Greg
Hello Jeff,
Thanks for your comment. I’ll read your comment tomorrow as it is late and I have another post on my heart.
Maria
Maria & Greg
Hello Richard Neva,
I’m really hoping you will visit again. I hope you do so you can read this. Please come back.
Please forgive us Christians for Christ’s name being synonymous with the god of capitalism and all the violence and evil that has come with it. Truly His name has been so ill used for the manipulative purposes of men who want to gain wealth from the labour and the pain of the poor and the uneducated.
I understand the relationship between wealth and poverty is an unequal balance. One cannot exist without the other. I cannot begin to tell you how our Father hates it. In the Old Testament He calls it an abomination.
What is also grievious to him, are the gifts the wealthy give to the poor. For these only continue to sustain this relationship and rob men and women of their dignity. Perhaps through these gifts they hope to clear their consciences of the violence they commit. These dead works can be an evil within themselves.
I recognise Karl Marx as a brilliant man with a brilliant mind. He was an idealist and a purist really. These both have their dangers. Many of his concepts I agree with. But I won’t go into that here. I’ve been accused of “heresy” just recently by evangelical fundamentalists for speaking of things they did not understand. But this I too understand. It is a form of illiteracy.
I’m afraid it is a failing of many evangelical Christians to wrongfully associate miscomprehension with deception. That means “because I don’t understand it then it must be deception or evil.”
I reject any “culture of violence” as much as I reject the “culture of silence” and as a Marxist you will understand what I am saying. One cannot exist without the other. And “staying silent to stay safe” has rendered so many powerless and has continued to support this evil system. Power is a perception Richard. We simply have just loaned too much power to Capitalism and I’m not sure that loaning power to Marxism is the answer we need.
It would be difficult for Christians to trust a Marxist revolution because of the violence so many Christians have suffered in communist countries in the last century. But the violence of capitalism has been a far greater evil and Jesus saw it as such. That is why He said you cannot serve God and money. They are opposed to eachother. He also said “If a man cannot work and provide for his family he is worse than an infidel” (heathen). Regular hand outs from a Government or any wealthy institution decrease work ethics…. known as benefit addiction. A man needs to work and have a sustainable income for his own self respect and dignity. Jesus understood this well.
History has shown that socialism and communism have failed us just as capitalism has. My belief is, once communism in Russia ceased The Russians reverted to greed and corruption on an unusually large scale. This was because communist ideology had been so successful in wiping out the “absolutes” from the neurological circuits in the minds of the people. Such was the success of their re education programme. The people simply had no neurological reverse once the control was lifted. They had several generations of a people who had not individuated. That’s what happens when there is no “balance of power.” Too much power corrupts. They did not know who they were. It has been horrific to see. There was not only a spiritual consequence but a biological and psychological one. Greed, murder, hatred and violence escalated because these evils rest in the heart and mind of a man and from this heart and mind men build their kingdoms and systems.
In Christianity we have what is known as 2 truths. Relative truth and absolute truth. Now the failing of fundamentalist Christianity is that we have turned many relative truths into absolute truths. The absolutes are the 10 commandments. Relative truth is something like “tithing 10% of your wage” or “women not teaching” or “turning the other cheek”. The list of relatives is long. The consequence of this is that many Christians are now walking a “tightrope” and have become insulated and cruel. This is not the freedom or abundant life Christ has shown us. God has given us a rather large playground to play in. The boundaries are the absolutes not the relatives. I quote Saint Augustine “Love God and do as you please”. Because if you truly do love Him all that you do will be pleasing to Him anyway. However, when love is mature it does not seek to please God. The pleasing kind of love is child like. That is another topic.
The absolute of “thou shalt not murder” is just that. Communist history says, “it’s okay to murder for the party or the people” President Bush says the same. “It’s okay to murder for oil or greed or for the country, and let’s attach God’s name at the end of it”. But “thou shalt not murder” is an absolute. It’s not up for negotiation with God.
Once the absolutes had been abolished from the consciences and minds of the Russians and then the control of the Government was lifted, chaos and lawlessness reigned. Now Russia will revert back to it’s former dictatorship styled communism.
The world rocks to and fro between many extremes. The power extremes or swings are the most damaging and violent of all. That’s why God says an unequal balance is an abomination to Him. God’s absolute truth is not to oppress men but to serve men. God’s power is not power over but power for. Power to serve. Jesus has taught us this by example. No one man, Government or ideology can ever be entrusted with all that power because it so corrupts. History has shown us this. There is so much more I can say on this.
Richard, I do hope you will return and we can discuss more of these things and many others. Keep an open and flexible mind.
The word “Christian” I’m afraid has become a loaded term today. Please tell me what you honestly think a Christian is? I will not condemn you or “bible bash” you I promise. I am very interested to know.
I do look forward to hearing from you soon.
Take Care,
Maria.
Maria & Greg
Well Jeff,
I enjoyed many of your comments and most importantly that your writings seem to point to that more excellent way which is love.
Paul said I preach nothing except Christ crucified and what the Holy Prophets spoke. Every man that believes Jesus Christ came in the flesh knows that He cast a shadow. And that shadow is the Old Testament. So the two integrated are a proclamation that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.
The Old Testament prophet has always had the Holy Spirit just as the New Testament prophet does. God is the same yesterday and today. His prophets and shepherds are the same yesterday as today. Is not the same Spirit dwelling in both? The only difference being the New Testament prophet is chained by the gospel and compelled to preach Christ crucified which is now our Salvation. The testimony of the Lord Jesus Christ is pure prophecy.
The prophet feels cursed or “appears to be cursed” is not just because others reject him. That sounds like a sulking self-centred child. I think the very early and wilfull stages of his prophetic life may be like this but as sanctification proceeds and full surrender has been accomplished, these childish ways soon pass and are exposed for what they are. The prophet knows he is only the messenger, the weak vessel that carries the word. It is the word that is being rejected, not him. It is the word that is painful to him, that consumes him so. He goes through a time of great ambivalence with this word. It is both a curse and a blessing. It is mixed.
Now we know he isn’t the only one with a revelatory God burdened message but while in his childish state he does go through his time when he feels this.
The feeling cursed part is because the dealings of God in his life are often so severe. The rejection of others is only a minute part of this. What others may get away with he simply cannot. He needs to be repeatedly humbled and kept humble. The message often hems him in, consumes and purges him and breaks him before and during. Sometimes the prophet can carry a word for many many years before God’s time comes for him to release it. During this time he himself is purged and humbled by that very word. He carries it about in his body. In that way he becomes the message.
The extreme baptisms of fire a prophet must go through are like a curse until the flesh is conquered. The length of time depends on the personality and deeper sins of the prophet. If he carries wounds from his past and does not have a renewed mind these must be dealt with first as he will not be a safe place or vessel in which to carry God’s word or anointing. The anointing will literally leak otherwise and he is at risk of going off in the flesh and often he has. This sanctification can go on for a long time.
The word he carries comes by revelation from God. It is truly by God. Often he does not even understand it fully but he just simply knows he has divine meetings with God and God is speaking to Him. It often takes years for that word to be comprehensible to him because he is not yet mature enough to understand. It is a process. The message is something that grows in him as he grows. It is built into his very being. But the word is divine and when he opens his mouth even he is surprised at how it all comes together and what comes out. This can happen both privately and publicly.
That does not mean he doesn’t read other books or other Christian men’s wisdom or revelation. But these are not for him to bring as he has had another revelation for this very hour. It does not mean he doesn’t have other interests. He goes to work, he goes fishing, he plays with his children.
By this stage the burden isn’t just with the people but with God, the word and himself. After all he is just a man, he is just flesh and is subjected to all the temptations common to man. But in this weak fleshly body he carries a huge burden and responsibility. He will often wrestle with God for many years about it until full surrender takes place. This is because he cannot live fully in this earthly world as other converted men do.
He has God given human needs for fellowship and companionship. But he can only have this with his brethren if he compromises. But this he cannot do so they reject him and hate him. He is not responsible for their hatred or rejection. He is responsible for how he responds to this though. It’s not unforgiveness or lack of love. He just cannot partake in their sins and so withdraws himself in silence. Or fellowships on a superficial level. This is painful for him. However God meets him directly in deep companionship himself. Often these are times of increasing revelation.
His pain is also that his loved ones walk this walk with him. He wants them to have and live as other converted families do. That is one of his deepest burdens. But God enables his loved ones and equips them also.
The word or message as it is given to him is so urgent and appears for now. But it is not. He cannot release this word until God’s appointed time because there are so many factors that need to come into play. The message disciplines and tries him, it harnesses him. The word is prepared for a certain time and climate. This is God’s time and God’s hour and God’s word remember, not his. And he must be a pure and healed vessel to deliver it.
Once the word is released for this particular season, people and time he is no longer the same person.
Only God has the whole picture and sees from the beginning to the end. How the prophet knows this. He is often prepared with this word from childhood for an appointed time, many many years ahead. He is only given in part and as he matures in understanding the word matures in him and purges him.
I can tell you what others think of him by this stage or how they treat him is long long gone and dead. Childish things have been put away. The pain is for the people and for God because he has been given the vision and knows what is about to come upon them. He knows how God longs to have fellowship with them. He knows God is in pain. God’s pain becomes his pain. He has had a terrifying vision. And he has lived out this terrifying vision. He hopes to spare God’s people from the suffering and pain. A true prophet is also intercessor. You cannot separate the two.
He may sit in a church and have a word to bring about order or correction over a matter and he will bring it. That word is separate but also a part of the full message he carries. It is only a minute portion of it. The rejection of that word only grieves him because of the captivity of God’s people. And he so desires to see God’s people free and God glorified. He does not take it personally. More than any other he knows he is only the vessel. Look at Paul the apostle but remember he is also the prophet. Did he not suffer for the Body? He did this willingly so that the body wouldn’t. He willingly suffered for them. He willingly identified with Christ’s sufferings.
Many of today’s prophets have broken the harness and gone off too soon with the message. This is not uncommon. If they have gone out with the message before the message has purged them this is very dangerous to them and others. The message will puff them up when it was mean’t to humble and break them and purge them. All those that submit to the prophet in this condition will also get puffed up. They will all drink of the same cup. In this condition the prophet is not a safe place to carry and deliver that message. This is evidenced by not respecting others boundaries and free choice to either reject or accept. It is also evidenced by an inability to take correction. They start to become defensive, controlling etc., They seek to justify and then delusion soon follows which results in a “false or “backslidden prophet”. Now they create a “following” and the acceptance of the people becomes important, the message is lost and falseness abounds. The fear of God is no more. Demons accommodate them and we then have “doctrines of demons”. I do not envy the prophet. I have much compassion for him even in his backslidden state. How I pray they will return.
God is gracious and works all things to good to them that love Him and are called according to his purposes.
If they can’t take the correction it means they are carrying old wounds from the past. Correction welded to rejection. They then become an island. Holed up in wounded pride. And what amount of pain will it then take for them to come back to the place where they first broke the harness? And then to be able to face all the destruction caused in their wake. I have much compassion for “prophets”.
Now the snakes that hiss around him aren’t people. I can assure you of this. They are demons and hordes from hell that have access through the unyielded flesh of men. They have at many times put him on deaths bed and come very close to taking his life. He is a man with loved ones remember. Now as a wife with children this has been most difficult. Especially in the earlier days when I had limited understanding. He is only a man and a weak one at that. It has been my weakness that feared the reproaches of men. This has been my dealing. The reproaches of men are water off a ducks back to the prophet that has put away childish things.
I truly have lived a life that has been unimagineable to most so my husband and I can be rightly dealt with and disciplined by God. Only God knows when the purging is complete. I’m so thankful for the purging as I would rather suffer all this than see my husband go the path that many of these prophets have in leading so many sheep astray and then have to stand before God on judgement day. The baptisms of fire are a wonderful blessing indeed, for there we have divine meetings with Him, the Son of man. We know our emotions are indeed conquered and no longer have power over us. They no longer steer us and toss us around to and fro. We are harnessed by God and steered by God.
I must slow down in my writing as I have other duties.
Bless you,
Maria.
Jeff Fenske
Dear Maria,
Thanks for taking the time to share your well thought out perspective with us all. Again, I’m indenting the points I’d like to respond to.
Maria, there is such a huge difference between the new covenant and the old that the Bible clearly teaches that we now have a stricter judgment (Heb. 10:26-39 and elsewhere), a stricter accountability.
Jesus introduced this concept in the Sermon on the Mount: “It has been said; but I say….” He made a clear distinction from the outward requirements of the OT and that we now must be inwardly pure in the NT.
And He told the disciples in John 14-16 how they will be much better off without Him, after He leaves, because the Holy Spirit will come and indwell them and lead them into all truth. And this is true for all post-Pentecost believers. Peter emphasized this point in his message at Pentecost, saying that what Joel had prophesied is now in effect, that God would pour out His Spirit on all people….
And now that we are John-14-16, Holy Spirit infilled, John 17 can and should happen also, that we would be ONE: one with each other in Him! This is normal, and this is what God has put on my heart.
Through the prophet’s dream http://onecanhappen.com/2008/01/07/intro-let-us-be-one, God told me to get going with the messages that He will give me. If anything, I’ve been dragging my feet. I probably should have the commentary completely written for “Let Us Be One,” so it can be put out as a book, like the prophet said.
It’s been a huge uphill struggle. I won’t go into all the details, because anyone, anywhere can pull this up. But it’s been very hard just to get out what I have.
This has been very hard for me, personally.
On my NoHate vehicle, which I’ve had since 1995, I have a few bumper stickers, among them is “Jesus Wept.” “Jesus cries out for His people. He longs to be with them.” This is so sad to see America fall (and so also the rest of the world) because His people were far from Him.
The churches I know don’t allow words of correction to be given except by their approved prophet, who doesn’t say much. The current move of man is to only allow positive/encouragement words, just like the jingle we hear over and over on the syndicated FM “Christian” radio station that won’t even play Keith Green or anything that would indicate that maybe something is wrong that we need to change in order for God to move and for us to be ONE.
I don’t think it’s wise to regularly attend a ‘church’ that isn’t really a church. I don’t listen to K-LOVE much, either. “They’re putting people to sleep, and it hurts My heart. It grieves My spirit. An anointing will come, My children, when you follow after Me, not man. Put away those things, those stocks and bonds, and follow Me. I will help. Let Me be your friend, where life is. There is no other, and you are on the wrong course when you go the other way. Let life reign, and be not afraid. Perilous times will come because you’ve disobeyed. You have not held up My banner of honor. And you will be scourged. For I was not in this, all that you did for Me—Me not being in your midst. Come back in the time of trouble. Glorify Me. Don’t fear. Get off the boat of greed and independence. Let’s be ONE. Let’s do it together, Me at your side, leading, ahead—not you doing your own thing anymore. Let’s do it. Be bold. Don’t faint, and I will be with you, all who obey. Let us be ONE. Not one with each other as you do your own thing. This doesn’t work. It must be under God. Feel My hurt, and put aside the things that keep you from Me. Get to know My word. It tells much, and distortions are many. Read it again and see what it says. You may be surprised to know that I care. I love you, but not in your sin. I cannot support this, those things you do, thinking I am in them, and am for you no matter what. I reject those who reject me. I love everyone, but not in their sin. It is a shame to think that I will bless my people when they curse and hurt my sheep from afar. Get off the boat of unrighteousness and onto love. I am here. But I will only show up when you obey. Seek Me and be still. Follow the way of righteousness and I will respond. You know what to do. You’ve been dragging your feet. Get those things right now. There is not time to dally around, thinking it doesn’t matter. It is filthy, and you reek with filth. It is not funny. My heart is grieved, and this market will fall because I am not in this. To the degree that you repent will I bless. Get on the boat of holiness and be filled. Don’t worry about what is going on around. It will happen, and don’t be a part of the filth. Vote your conscience, not your pocketbook. You don’t need to vote for evil, and evil abounds. The system is corrupt. Get off the boat and pray. A better way, a new day will take over. You will see it. Let My word take you to new heights no matter what you see around you. Live a better life. Be afraid no more by what you see. Get off the boat of unforgiveness and live together in your heart, ONE. I have a new way, and it will be slow until you get off the boat of unforgiveness and into a life of loving everyone, not just your elders or superiors, but those around you and overseas — even your enemies. Love them first. Make a special place for them in your heart. Behold, and see My word in action as you obey, Me first. Give life to others—not a dirty look. Look the other way until you are holy, until you’ve made amends. Me first, in you, letting life go. A new way will abound, and many will see your fruit, that you obeyed. Greetings—a new day has dawned.”
I understood they weren’t people. But they are usually sent by people, what I call James-3 cursing. And we all probably have known those who have died prematurely because of being cursed by ‘Christians’ “for standing up for truth.” What you say is described in the “Let Us Be ONE” prophecy: http://onecanhappen.com/2008/01/07/a-gift-that-will-set-many-free.
May this never be anymore. The curses must stop, and those cursed must not hold this against them, so we can be free and love our enemies who can become our friends “when they know we mean them no harm. Let’s be friends, and fight no more, and seek God together. Then faith will abound and love will conquer all iniquity of the flesh. It doesn’t matter what the stock market will do. For holiness will abound and you will be ONE, living together, helping one another through the difficult times ahead. It’s too late to reverse what’s been done, for My men have been rejected. There was a season. Now is the time to overcome and get right with all those around, so you can be holy and set apart. Forgiveness will reign from your hearts, and we will be together, embracing for eternity. You in Me and I in you. It should always be this way—resting, relaxed, righteousness abounding—your hearts glad. Lift others high, yourselves last. And let’s do it, My people. Freedom at last. There is a better way in which life reigns and spirits are set free to abound. Don’t limit what you can do. Rest in Me, forgiving. And I will prepare a place for you by My side, abounding. It is for everyone. We can all be ONE. Let’s reign over temptation and back in the boat where iniquity has been bailed out. This is the only way to do it. Me first, in My love. Freedom. Go slow, always in love; never fear, and I will bail you out. Be not afraid to obey even when it hurts. Feel My love abound. Rest. Give Me your pride. Fall on your face daily, and be prepared to suffer. But I am in this. Your heart will swell with love, and it will be easy to remain in Me when others are on the boat with you. For now, relax, and let righteousness reign. Don’t worry. Perilous times will come. It is too late to remedy. Now, let’s pray.”
Okay, freedom you all. I hope you’re blessed and encouraged by what was just supposed to be my response to Maria. It’s amazing how words that have correction in them are actually ‘positive’ and ‘encouraging’ if we have ears to hear and a willingness to obey.
No matter what happens in the world, we can soar!
Freedom, in Christ!
Thanks, again, Maria!
Jeff Fenske : )
Anchorage, Alaska
Maria & Greg
Hello Jeff,
I have not given your previous post the attention I should as I have family duties at present. I can hear your heart though and your cry for ONE and the message God has given you. I agree, oneness can only be by His Spirit, it is our flesh that separates us. I will read it carefully later. Must go now.
Bless you in Him as you continue to seek Him,
Maria.
Jeff Fenske
Thank you, Maria in New Zealand,
Actually, I only read, myself, on Wednesday night the two-segment prophecy (now in italics) that I got while writing the above comment.
Even though this is short, I think this is the most significant addendum I’ve gotten to the Let Us Be ONE prophecy I got in 2001-02.
As is usually the case, when I get a word, I don’t think it is particularly profound, because I’m trying to mainly just make sure that I write accurately what I’m hearing—and to not get in the way of it. But again, having now read it, I’m kind of awe-struck by what it contains. Some of the points in this one are quite sobering, and relate to what Andrew said about the serious situation we are now in, up to our very necks. Apparently, it’s irreversible, now that people whom God gave us to warn us, like Andrew and Ron Paul have been dissed by the church. And Americans could be electing Ron Paul right now, who could have turned this mess around, come January. Sad.
So sad.
But the good news is that ONE can happen, and perhaps for many of us who will live in Christ, together, the best times may actually be ahead—glowing in God! Freedom!
I’ve decided to put this little prophecy into a post, and probably comment on portions of it in part 2 of the post.
As always, I’m open to suggestions and comments from anyone.
God bless!
It’s time to get our eyes off of the stock market and into getting Jesus’ vision for us to be ONE with each other, in Christ FINALLY happening!
Freedom, no matter what! Resting in Him!
Joy! Bright days ahead. Gonna be tough though, in the natural, apparently.
Jeff Fenske : )