False, revival-killing, salvation doctrine at IHOP continues from IHOPU president, Allen Hood at the Awakening meetings :(

From: ONEcanhappen
NOTE: I love IHOP! I’m a big fan! I’m listening to Jaye Thomas’ worship in their prayer room right now (the 5/5 archive). I believe that God is saying that IHOP is at the heart of what is right. But this, what I’ll talk about here, is a HUGE problem — as is its reverse probably THE solution!
I’m convinced that the false doctrine of eternal security, “once saved always saved” (OSAS) is thwarting the move of God that the wonderful people at IHOP are fighting for so valiantly.
This is almost universally a church-wide problem throughout America, so I’m not singling out IHOP. Almost every evangelical church either teaches eternal security outright, or something similar, like it’s hard to lose one’s salvation — though the Bible teaches just the opposite — as I’ve proven: Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way | Who are the Children of God? — “There is therefore now *no condemnation* to those who are IN CHRIST Jesus, who don’t WALK according to the flesh, but ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT.”
This is my second post, showing the president of IHOPU teaching this serious false doctrine at the awakening meetings. This is my first: FALSE DOCTRINE: Why won’t Christian leaders even mention Hebrews 10:26? An IHOP example — so close and yet so far away — from full REVIVAL 🙁
It’s almost like friendly fire. IHOP is correctly pushing so hard to advance the kingdom, to draw near to God. They’re doing so many things right. But then the people are given this false hope that they don’t really have to overcome sin — which puts out the Holy Spirit fire. Once-saved-always-saved is a broken cistern that can’t hold water.
It’s almost like: “I’m okay; you’re okay. We don’t really need to fully repent. We can stay as we are.” But then God can’t fully come:

[Mike Bickle IHOP 3/08] Making a Purity Covenant: Seven Practical Commitments — The Lord will visit IHOP-KC with an open door of glory in the spirit and a door of ministry to the nations. When Jesus opens a door of glory to release more of His manifest presence then He requires more agreement with His heart (a higher standard of obedience). … This is a promise with a warning of judgment.

Mike Bickle: Making a Purity Covenant so the HOLY Spirit can come and we won’t get zapped … to bless His heart — that we may be ONE!

Isn’t eternal security the opposite of what Jonathan Edwards taught, which sparked the first Great Awakening — “Sinners in the hand of an angry God”? For the ‘church’ in America, today, going to hell isn’t even a possibility.
Most Bible teachers no longer teach the numerous warning scriptures that do apply to those who are born-again.
Jonathan Edwards wouldn’t even be allowed to speak today. He’s not evangelically correct.

False doctrine is what’s keeping the Third Great Awakening from happening.
But conversely, true doctrine, teaching the entire New Testament (not leaving out the many warning scriptures) can bring in the Third Great Awakening.
Who will lead us to worship in Spirit and in truth?
Paul said in Romans 8:

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who don’t walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. … 4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. [Romans 8:1b is missing from the NIV and others: Is Murdoch’s NIV the ‘N’ew ‘I’lluminati ‘V’ersion? Has the Word of God Been Corrupted to Bring US Into the New World Order?]

12 So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if you live after the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are children of God. 15 For you didn’t receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God; 17 and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ; if indeed we suffer with him, that we may also be glorified with him.

Many other scriptures like these are highlighted at Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way. But here is what Allen taught, word for word. Why is his conclusion so incorrect?
Transcribed by Jeff Fenske from the IHOPU Student Awakening, 4/15/10
Allen Hood, President of IHOPU

Whether you feel like He loves you or not, beloved — if you’re wondering whether or not He loves you, tonight, I have good news for you. 2,000 years ago, He drove a stake into human history and displayed the depths of His love, that you might never have to guess again.

2,000 years ago, when we rejected Him, when we scorned the one sent to us in love, He forgave us on that cross — even when we were killing Him; even when we were rejecting the Lord of glory, He said, ‘Father, forgive them, they know not what they do.’

What do you do with a God Who even when you reject Him and kill Him, He fights for you in love and chooses to forgive you?

And you wonder whether or not He’s forgiven you of the last five years. You wonder whether or not He’s forgiven you for last week or yesterday.”

My assessment:
Jesus didn’t say to those killing and mocking him, in the first person: “your sins are forgiven.” Rather, He said: “Father, [You] forgive them, for they know not what they do.” This wasn’t when we were forgiven, nor were most of them. The curse was even on their children, right?
Jesus was doing what Stephen did and what we should be doing — asking God to forgive our enemies.
When Stephen was stoned, he cried: “Lord, don’t hold this sin against them,” that doesn’t mean that those who stoned Stephen were forgiven, but Stephen wanted them to be. He prayed that they would be.
Though still God, Jesus came to earth, putting aside His supernatural powers (Philippians 2). He was led by the Holy Spirit and empowered by the Holy Spirit just as we should be. See: A Call to Intimacy: The Holy Spirit in John’s Gospel & Epistles. At seminary, D.A. Carson gave me an A- for this paper; though, he taught just the opposite, having even written against the Vineyard movement.
Yes, Jesus chose to forgive, just as Stephen chose to forgive, just as we are supposed to forgive. But this has nothing to do with whether we stand forgiven today.
There is only ‘no condemnation’ when we are actually in Christ Jesus:

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who don’t walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

13 For if you live after the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are children of God.

The reason most ‘Christians’ feel condemnation is because they are condemned because of willfully sinning sins that lead to death (Hebrews 10:26-39). Most live in Paul’s who-doesn’t-inherit-the-kingdom list in Galatians 5. See: Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way | Who are the Children of God? — “There is therefore now *no condemnation* to those who are IN CHRIST Jesus, who don’t WALK according to the flesh, but ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT.”
Whose names will not be removed from the Book of Life, according to Jesus in Rev. 3:1-6?
‘ONE’ will happen when we are truly in Christ, together. And false doctrine, once-saved-always-saved (and similar) is the main thing keeping ‘ONE’ from happening — Jesus’ heart-cry for us.
OSAS is a doctrine of demons that church leaders and others pray (James-3 curse) that people will accept. And these demons in ‘Christians’ reinforce this false doctrine so hardly anyone is even willing to research what the Bible really says on who goes to heaven, really.
Jeff Fenske
Anchorage, Alaska
Related:
FALSE DOCTRINE: Why won’t Christian leaders even mention Hebrews 10:26? An IHOP example — so close and yet so far away — from full REVIVAL 🙁

19 thoughts on “False, revival-killing, salvation doctrine at IHOP continues from IHOPU president, Allen Hood at the Awakening meetings :(

  1. loyd

    For sure we all know this spiritual giant (Jeff) is definitely going to heaven. What about the rest of us? Only Jeff knows for sure.Please accept us Jeff.

    1. Jeff Fenske

      Loyd,
      My response to this is also my response to your other comment: http://onecanhappen.com/2010/05/11/mike-bickle-head-of-ihop-from-porn-to-worship-within-the-minute-yikes-mike/#comment-1274.
      Also, I’m just what is supposed to be normal, but false doctrine has deceived the church that being “in Christ” is not really being in Christ.
      All of us, including myself, for sure, will answer to God alone.
      I’m pointing out here the really bad doctrine that prevails in the ‘church’ today that is giving people false hope. Though true Christian leaders are supposed to be warning the people about what the Bible really says about who goes to heaven and who does not.
      This is serious, and the truth needs to be pointed out. I’m doing what I’m supposed to be doing.
      Are you, Loyd?
      Jeff Fenske

      I should add that most churches have actually become mind-control institutions. And this teaching, here, is a good example.
      Allen is twisting what the Word of God really says so it fits into the once-saved-always-saved doctrine that is false.
      Wes Hall doesn’t do this so much. He has even talked about the fear of the Lord. It’s almost like the two men are working against each other.
      It would be interesting what would happen if Allen would step out of the picture for awhile.
      The President of a Bible college must have sound doctrine. He’s not the man.

    2. Tom

      Lord, please make me like jeff so I can be saved too.
      Jeff please put in a word for me… I know He’ll listen
      to you.
      And lease tell us where is the magical line that Jesus draws, over which we cross into damnation, and how many really little sins we can do till we get to it… or do we have to be completely sinless like you?
      TT

  2. nathalie

    Hey, I’m a fourth year IHOPU student in the biblical studies program and I’m pretty sure that so far when every teachers addresses the issue of eternal security they say we can loose our salvation (i.e. great falling away). You can’t take Allen’s message at an awakening and view it as his doctrinal statement. He’s trying to encourage people who believe God has given up on them because they sinned. Trust me…I’ve heard many, many messages from Allen that would scare you like crazy. He taught a message in our Sermon on the Mount class that left the whole class weeping wondering if they were even saved.

    1. Jeff Fenske

      Nathalie,
      Thanks for sharing your inside perspective. The main thing is that we somehow get revival going which is so badly needed. Jesus said in John 17, that when we’re one with each other in Him, “then the world will know.”
      We all want ‘ONE’ to happen, right? The real thing, based upon really being in Christ together. This isn’t some made up dream. This is Jesus’ desire for all of us to be in Him so radically that He can show up and fill our hearts to where the fruits will be manifest for all to see. Then they can make their decisions after seeing how awesome God and His people really are.
      But first, we must become ONE.
      I hope you’re seeing by how I’m writing these thoughts that I am big-time pro-IHOP succeeding! But I have to say that I’ve pretty much given up that they will be the ones bringing in this move. I even predicted this at the get-go, having seen what they teach about holiness, mainly Allen. He can’t teach one way in Bible school and another way at the revival, where he actually says people are forgiven even when they are outwardly lewd, sexually. And he never said otherwise in the hundreds of hours that I have watched online of this awakening.
      Did you see my other post on this subject? Allen actually said this, clearly: FALSE DOCTRINE: Why won’t Christian leaders even mention Hebrews 10:26? An IHOP example — so close and yet so far away — from full REVIVAL 🙁
      If IHOP is teaching the truth about who goes to heaven, and specifically Allen, then it should be written down somewhere. Where is it? I don’t see Allen teaching what the Bible really says, which I put together in my article: Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way | Who are the Children of God?
      It’s really clear, but Allen seems to be avoiding this like the plague in the Awakening meetings. Allen will call for holiness, but he’ll never make it a salvation issue. So the unholiness just goes on. And God can’t show up the way we need Him to until we’re actually holy, right with God and each other.
      I see three major problems with the Awakening, three major things that are keeping what Mike and many others want from happening. At the meetings:
      1) Lack of holiness is never a salvation issue for at least Allen
      2) I have never, ever heard Allen or Wes call for people to get right with each other, which was the major part of the Asbury Revival. See: Asbury Revival, 1970: “Dr. Kinlaw, I am a liar. Now what do I do?”
      3) There is very little direct worship of God, such as “God, You are holy; You are awesome!” There is something that is keeping the ‘worship’ leaders from really worshiping. I’ve seen it start to happen, and then someone or something throws a wrench into it. Jaye started doing this in the prayer room on a few occasions, as did Ryan, but there is some kind of reverse-Christian pressure in the Awakening meetings (and even in the prayer room) that stops real worship cold. What we have instead is songs about God and telling-God-what-to-do songs, which is reminiscent of some of the bad fruit of the Vineyard movement: “Holy Spirit come” — instead of worshiping God, getting right with each other, and then He does come as a result. “Draw near to God and He’ll draw near to you. This is automatic — a guarantee.
      I think Wes is a jewel. I really like him, and it seems that he has no baggage, that he’s really qualified to lead. But I wonder about Allen. He doesn’t seem to get touched by God (which contrary to what is said at IHOP really is a sign of rightness with God). “Don’t be drunk with wine but be filled with the Spirit.” I don’t see Allen really filled.
      Someone or some people are keeping the leaders from even mentioning that we need to get right with the people that we’ve hurt. My guess is that Wes’ heart is pure, that he is right. But I often wonder about Allen. He’s not resting in God. He seems unable to. He has to work it up, instead of just being.
      Whereas Wes just is, which is such a beautiful thing.
      Something isn’t quite right at IHOP. Why hasn’t Mike been doing his podcasts lately, none? I think this is an indication that his confidence and enthusiasm is waning. Otherwise, he would want to share.
      I watched the meetings every single day for months. But I haven’t even watched one in what is now probably months. There is something about IHOP in which they can’t hold enough water, but at the same time, I don’t think they’re teachable enough to hold it.
      Simmering beneath all of this may be the women’s ministry issue, and my guess is that you are a woman, from what your name is. Anyone who becomes president of IHOP (which Allen is, for those of you unfamiliar) must agree with Mike’s policy on women in the ministry. Allen must have; therefore, he has compromised with what the word of God clearly says in 1 Timothy 2.
      I don’t have the revelation as to exactly what a woman should or should not do as a spiritual leader in the church, but clearly, IHOP is way out of line with their policy on women in leadership. They’re taking experience over and above what the Bible crystal clearly says, which is rebellion, the sin of witchcraft, the Bible says. And then they can just make up other stuff as they go to. They’re not submitted to God, which then opens the door for chaos.
      I say this as a big fan of IHOP in many ways. I have always seen Mike Bickle as a pioneer, having a heart hard after God. But he’s not balanced. “He runs from truth,” I believe I just heard.
      No matter how hard the worship teams call for God to come, He won’t until we are right-with-God-and-each-other Christians.
      They seem to have totally blown off what Shelly was shown in her vision of how Jonathan Edwards is a foundation for what is to happen now. What was his theme: “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God.” The people weren’t right enough with God in order to be able to go to heaven — and Allen won’t even mention this once in the Awakening meetings??? What’s with that??
      God will only come in His manifest presence when the people really are holy. Church leaders can fool people, but they’ll never fool God. The Third Great Awakening will have real repentance (getting right with those we’ve hurt, like in Asbury), and it will have real worship (direct-to-God “You are awesome”). When people mostly just sing songs about God it’s a diversion; it’s not worship.
      I’m very grateful for the good that IHOP has done, to a huge degree legitimizing tongues and how God touches people in physically evident ways when His power comes on them (it’s happened to me hundreds of times). I love the prayer room concept; though, I think it should be more of a worship room.
      Mike is absolutely a pioneer. Wes is so cool!! I greatly apprecitate many of the people there, and have shown this on my site, but somebody, or some people are actively keeping the move of God from fully happening at the Awakening meetings. And I think the core of it is unscriptural doctrine and at least one or more of the leaders not having a totally clear conscience before God, not having gotten right with those they’ve hurt — or maybe even being in a sinful, illegitimate marriage. I don’t know any of their marital histories, but if you’re interested see: My Theory on Divorce and ‘Marriage’: It’s time to get out of unbiblical ‘marriages.’ “God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterers.” We must all be clean.
      The Third Great Awakening requires that we’re right with God in all areas. God is not mocked. Church leaders may fool many people, but never God.
      And woe to those who are living a lie. It would be better for them to have never been a teacher, because teachers get a stricter judgment.
      That’s my perspective. I think Allen and others are taking the fear of God out of the meetings to where so much of it is just a syrupy false idea that God accepts everyone close to His heart no matter what. And this is just flat out unbiblical. There is a legitimate need for people to understand the Father-heart of God. I’ve sat through and appreciated greatly those messages, when I was in the Vineyard church in Evanston Illinois, while attending seminary. But this is for the prodigal son who returns. Probably still the vast majority of Christians are still willfully sinning, living still with the pigs, like the prodigal.
      “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.” Without it, we don’t even have the beginning of wisdom, and thus, we are losing our entire country and cushy lifestyle. And a main theme in the prayer room is an outcry against abortion when these very same people have supported and won’t repent for supporting President Bush’s immoral, reverse-Christian wars. And now many are supporting another one for which we don’t have adequate evidence that Iran is even a threat.
      God can’t bless a warmongering ‘church.” Whatever happened to Jesus’ words: “blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called sons of God?”
      We are such an arrogant people. Hardly anyone is really hearing from God.
      “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”
      IHOP is still way too much in Partysville. They haven’t yet repented: The Remedy for James-3 Cursing & Partysville in Today’s Church is James 4 so God can show up to the degree they are telling Him He should, over and over and over and over…. We shouldn’t be telling God what to do. We should become, and then He will come, automatically. He wants to come! We don’t have to twist His arm. We just have to legitimately be His people, submitted to Him, ONE with each other in Him.
      It gets so old that I haven’t even listened to the prayer room or the meetings for quite some time. IHOP is in a rut. And I think Allen is a huge reason why, based upon what I’ve seen, repeatedly, and without exception.
      I think God is going to come elsewhere, somewhere where they fully get it right.
      When we build it He will come.
      What happened at Asbury, you all?
      May it be! Yippy!!!
      Jeff Fenske
      Anchorage, Alaska

  3. Alison

    Allen Hood was just in New Zealand at the house of prayer that I work with and he spoke a most convicting message on the fear of the Lord and trembling before the Lord and discerning what the Lord is doing in the nations at this critical time in history. You should download it (free) and listen to it, and maybe it will give you a different perspective of Allen and the rest of IHOP. I would say that I have heard more stuff on the justice and fear of the Lord and the need for 100% holiness and obedience within IHOP than I have outside of it, but also I have learned so much of the glorious mercy of God which leads us into His heart of justice and holiness. It all comes together under the harmony of all of God’s attributes.
    Here’s the link:
    http://www.thop.co.nz/resources/recent-audio/ and download the one called:
    Cultivating a Culture of Discernment – New Zealand Standing at a Critical Juncture

    1. Jeff Fenske

      Alison,
      I listened to all of the 1 hour 35 minute message except for the intro.
      It seems that Allen is a Calvinist, or close to it. He seems to believe in the perseverance of the saints — John Calvin’s view that those who are truly born again will persevere and not even be able to lose their salvation.
      Allen seems to believe the false doctrine that God’s love is so great that when we stray, God will put us through whatever it takes so we will not lose our salvation. But this isn’t true Biblically (see: Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way) or in what we see with our own eyes among those we know who are truly born again.
      This message is really good as a warning as to what’s coming and the need for revival, and “the human propensity for not sounding the alarm” — but to him, the fear of the Lord is related to what we’re going to experience here on earth, probably pretty soon — not what we’re in danger of regarding losing our salvation.
      This is perhaps is a key to the deception in what Allen teaches, which I think is why the Third Great Awakening isn’t happening at IHOP — which I think is so sad. The sooner real and full revival happens in America the better, no matter where it starts. But I don’t think it’s going to happen where there is false teaching on who goes to heaven. It’s just not going to happen. It is my opinion that until people realize their salvation is in dire jeopardy, most will not fully enough repent — even knowing what is going to hit America.
      Allen says this at 1:09:45:

      “We have confused God’s individual dealings with His corporate dealings. And unless you understand this Biblically you will be in trouble, because you will be saying ‘mercy, mercy,’ when God is of course giving individuals ‘mercy, mercy,’ but he’s giving nations judgment.”

      I don’t understand where Allen gets this erroneous and greatly deceptive teaching from when James 4 (and much of the NT) says just the opposite.
      Allen is very intelligent. He can talk for 1.5 hours, but I think he’s a key player in keeping full revival from happening at IHOP, which I’m sure is what he wants, but his theology is getting in the way.
      “I think he should step down” and let another lead, who teaches the truth, fully.
      For those interested, the direct MP3 link for this message is here.
      Jeff
       

  4. Ben

    I say this in love brother, I like your obvious study and passion on this topic, but might I suggest, as one brother to the next; how about instead of moaning and groaning about IHOP behind the backs of the IHOP leadership, you take your beliefs to them. If what you say is true then shouldn’t you discuss this with them before you go posting it on a website where they’re not even going to see it; so what is the point in posting it here? If I was in your position, believing what you believe, I would take it to them, if you truly believe you have heard from God that their doctrine is stopping God moving in a mighty way, and you are right, will you not be held accountable for posting it here where its not going to accomplish anything, instead of taking it to them and giving them an actual chance to respond? If what you are saying is true, and you have heard the truth from God! Then you my friend could be held accountable for millions of untouched, unsaved souls, because instead of taking this to them you have chosen the easy way and posted it behind their backs, under the radar. If you have heard from God, and you hold the truth, then send this to them.
    Also I have a rule, don’t say behind someone’s back what you would not say to their face. Basically pointing the finger at Allen Hood and saying your a major reason why revival has not come, and is not going to come, that is a huge statement my friend, and you best hope your right. If I believed that someone was being the/a hindrance to revival like you do I would take it to them in love
    May God bless you and may His goodness and truth abound to you brother.

    1. Jeff Fenske

      Ben,
      I appreciate your concern, but frankly what you say has never even crossed my mind. There are a number of factors here.
      Alan was speaking this publicly to many thousands of people all over the world through live and then archived internet streams.
      And this is at least the second time, three months after he said this: FALSE DOCTRINE: Why won’t Christian leaders even mention Hebrews 10:26? An IHOP example — so close and yet so far away — from full REVIVAL 🙁 Do you see what he’s doing to and with the scriptures? What he said here flabbergasted me, saying that willful lusters “are forgiven, tonight, but you are not clean.” Which I said is the exact opposite of what this passage clearly says. I found Hebrews 10:26-39 in 1975.
      Also, I had big hope for the IHOPU revival. I think Wes is fantastic, very pure hearted, but the more and more I watched, the more and more I could see there was something clearly wrong with Alan. He never really seemed to have the joy of the Lord or the anointing. “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble” is a principle that works in revivals too. Men can fool men and women, but not God.
      Also, Alan is the president of IHOPU. He’s not just saying things he hasn’t taught over and over again in class. He was boldly proclaiming his once-saved-always-saved doctrine that I am convinced is the number 1 false doctrine that has destroyed America and kept real Christianity from happening. He’s clearly set in what he believes. There probably wouldn’t be anything that I would write him personally that he would even carefully read. It would just get trash canned. I’ve been around the block.
      And I didn’t write this behind his back. This is kind of an open letter. Anyone can read this, including him. He’d actually be more likely to take it seriously if it was posted, I think.
      We need to keep in mind too that someone (or some people) was keeping the crucial teaching of restitution out of the IHOPU Student Awakening. How could getting right with people be the number one theme of the Asbury Revival and IHOPU totally ignored it, during the hundreds of hours I watched it, anyway. I never heard leadership say it even once.
      Paul listed elders’ qualifications, and when an elder isn’t qualified himself — when he hasn’t gotten right with those he’s hurt— then he probably won’t be calling for others to get right either — and maybe he would put pressure on the other leaders to also not mention it.
      Something fishy was going on here. This is how clean a leader needs to be: Paul’s Elders’ qualifications revisited: What does ‘BLAMELESS’ mean? — Most pastors are biblically disqualified
      Wes, on the other hand, seemed to be as clean as a hound’s tooth. There is a reason the revival started in Wes’ class, I’ve stated. And there is a reason why he was so touched by God. Again: “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”
      Also, Shelley had a dream about how Jonathan Edwards role in the Great Awakening in how this was applicable to this awakening. But they totally ignored also Edwards’ main theme, sinners in the hands of an angry God, because it disagreed with at least Alan’s eternal security teaching [I’m not sure where Mike Bickle stands on OSAS, especially since he let Alan continue to teach this way]. Alan taught the opposite of what Jonathan Edwards taught. Alan taught away the fear of God — how we should be horrified if we keep willfully sinning and don’t repent.
      I don’t see any way that Alan would have listened to me.
      The bottom line is that the people need to be warned about what is going on — as well as encouraged that when we get our doctrines and practices right we will see the Third Great Awakening.
      That’s what I’m doing. That’s what this site is all about. Here I was pointing out to those who did have ears to hear [and perhaps Wes has even seen this, who knows?] how false doctrine, I think killed the IHOPU revival. But that we or someone else could do better if we get our doctrines right.
      Consider this as well as many of the posts on this site:

      [Book] The GREAT GOSPEL DECEPTION by David A. Servant — “Only when the church does embrace the gospel of Jesus and His apostles will there be any hope of true revival”

      God won’t fully show up until we are right with our brothers and sisters, and not until the fear of God is restored among believers, most won’t get right enough with others so real Christianity can again happen in our midst.
      This is a public forum. This isn’t behind their backs. Anyone can send this link to them, and perhaps someone has. I would have loved to talk with Wes about these ideas, but he hardly had time to teach his classes and lead the revival, and rest and be with his family.
      And Alan held rank, and he’s the one who said these things so boldly. He also didn’t have time, but had he, I really don’t think he would have been interested at all in what I would say, especially if it wasn’t face to face, and I live thousands of miles away in Alaska.
      And like I said, it didn’t even occur to me to even try to talk to them. I wasn’t led by the Holy Spirit to do that. But I was led to warn the people in this public forum that anyone can dial into.
      This site is a think-tank for how ONE can happen. The IHOPU Student Awakening obviously did many things right or God wouldn’t have shown up at all — which is the norm in most churches today.
      Alan said this publicly for anyone to see. My response is public for anyone to see.
      I believe the once-saved-always-saved doctrine is a deadly doctrine of demons sending many people to hell, thinking they are going to heaven. And it’s the number one thing keeping the Third Great Awakening from happening. I would call it a heresy, but perhaps some Catholic people would say that is a Catholic term.
      This is serious. False doctrine is destroying the church and America.
      True doctrine can bring about the Third Great Awakening.
      Jeff Fenske

  5. Ben

    If this website is here for this purpose, to cry about people and how their teaching is false, how their doctrines arent correct and how they are the reason God isnt moving and millions of souls arent being touched by God without actually talking to the person or the ministry first, giving them a chance to respond! Then quite frankly mate I believe it should be shut down. Even a court of law gives the accused the chance to defend themselves!
    I can stand in the middle of town shouting things about someone, hoping that they’ll by some random chance, come along and hear me, or someone else will tell them, OR I can go directly to them and tell them what I believe. I’m sorry your trying to justify why you havent said this to him with a “i don’t think he’ll listen” excuse. First of all you dont know that till you have done it. Or you could take it to someone in the IHOP leadership, they’re humble people, I’m sure they’ll listen. How would you like it if you had a problem with pornography and instead of approaching you and telling you that I feel it needs to stop, I went on a website and said JEFF’S INTO PORN LOOK AT HIS SIN!! HE’S THE REASON WHY GOD ISNT MOVING!! And you wouldnt even know that I posted it.
    No I would not do that. I love you too much and would rather approach you and give you the opportunity to respond and the chance to hear what I believe is true. And you would prefer that too. Wouldnt you? Or would you rather I say “He wont even listen to me so I’m just going to post it on a website and hope he sees it, then he might listen to me” If you were a pastor of a church and someone thought that something you had taught wasn’t biblical, would you prefer they came to you and talked to you about it or went around the church behind your back telling everyone you’re a false teacher and the reason God isnt moving. What you are doing is pointing the finger at Allen when he’s not even looking and saying he is the reason why millions may go to hell. PUT YOURSELF IN HIS SHOES!! Love your neighbour as yourself! Do to others as you would have them do to you!! Your breaking the 2nd commandment with this carry on! And half the stuff your saying about Allen is based on assumption!!!!
    When Allen Hood came to the Tauranga House of Prayer and spoke, he preached the message that you heard about Jesus the judge, and after that message he gave the rest of the meeting to the lord and so the worship began we all stood up and started to worship. And I felt the presence of the Lord there in a strong way, but it wasn’t the presence I had felt before, and I asked God what is this where’s the joy etc? And God said to me “this is the fear of the Lord,” the Isaiah 11:2 spirit of the fear of the Lord. So to say that Allen isn’t annointed, and that Allen taught away the fear of God is a complete lie, Allen Hood fears the Almighty more than anyone I have met, more than anyone I’ve heard, he knows true well that God is a righteous judge. Plus he was and still is a very humble guy. Your judging a lot by what you see and quite frankly what you dont actually know 100%
    Titus 3:9-11
    Matthew 18:15
    Take it to them FIRST!

    1. Jeff Fenske

      Ben,
      This is how the dysfunction continues. Sweep everything under the rug. Putting the trip on me, saying I can’t respond publicly to what Allen said publicly, enables and prolongs the dysfunction.
      We need to have a healthy body with Jesus in charge. It’s not going to happen through once-saved-always-saved and through leaders who twist scriptures.
      And Allen is a big boy. He walks in big shoes. He put it out there publicly. We can talk about it publicly — especially when OSAS is (I didn’t say that Allen is) deceiving millions and he’s the president — supposed to be fully elder qualified. Elders must be “apt to teach.”
      And your comparison isn’t a cogent argument. You just publicly brought in a disgusting private thing into this, associated it with me “just for argument’s sake.” And compared that to Allen’s public teaching???
      It’s not sound argumentation, and talk about love?
      To love Allen is to say this isn’t right. We need to get out of this dysfunctional system where we overly protect people in leadership while putting down those who blow the whistle.
      I am for Allen. What I posted can only help him. This is serious. We’re not playing a game here.
      The Devil wants us to sit by and say nothing when leaders publicly deceive people — keeping the dysfunction going.
      We all need to do what we’re called to do. Many leaders weren’t called to be what they’re doing, so should step down.
      Wes Hall: Many ministers weren’t even called into the ministry. “The reason you’ve gone to seminary is to prove to God…how dedicated you are.” • “Some of you should have been in ministry, and you went into business; and you tried to become the best you could to earn your father’s approval in the natural.”
      jeff

  6. Ben

    That was a comparison to what your doing to Allen! To love is to go to them first!!! You still havent said, Ok I shall bring this to Allen! What good to IHOP is this website going to do! IHOP is a ministry that is only going to grow and if they’re totally off in salvation you better speak up!! Where’s your fear of the Lord! Dont fear man fear God!
    “I tremble before the Almighty, does anybody fear the Lord anymore? I’m afraid our gospel is too polite” Allen Hood. This does not sound like the Allen Hood you describe. Tthose who are truly saved will hunger and thirst for righteousness, they will give everything to God and proclaim Jesus saviour and LORD! Perfect obedience isnt going to happen but a firey desire for obedience will and will through the grace of God result in righteousness and fruits of the Spirit! I have been saved since April 2009, I slipped up on drinking, smoking, drugs, sex, but now I am totally free of all these things, by the overcoming power of the grace of God, through the mercy of God which is new every morning, and the grace of God giving me forgiveness! Those who are truly saved will show genuine desire to turn away from sin and a love for Jesus, no matter what the cost, weakness and sin and disobedience will happen on the journey of righteousness but a true desire will result in righteousness, we’re human!! Study God’s mercy! I dont believe Allen is blocking revival, I believe he is stirring things up! He is a messenger of the Lord! Have you even asked him what he believes!!
    What you have posted throughout this topic has slammed Allen Hood and behind his back and IHOP behind their back! LOVE WOULD TELL HIM! You’re still dodging the point here! Trying to escape actually taking this to the one your talking about, actually getting his view, his belief, his doctrine, instead of something he has said in an awakening meeting! I’m not trying to sweep anything under the rug! Shout it on the rooftops if you want! But a real brother would talk to him before you do! I dont believe you’ve even heard from God but you’ve put together some intellectual argument against Allen, and IHOP.

    1. Jeff Fenske

      Ben,
      Allen has said some things about the fear of the Lord, but never in relation to losing one’s salvation, which is how Paul used it.
      Allen isn’t biblical enough to be a leader, and you’ve only been born-again for less than two years and you know exactly what I should do, even though you don’t even understand what the Bible says about who really goes to heaven?
      That helps me understand where you are coming from, and why you don’t understand what’s really going on here.
      jeff

  7. Ben

    Ah so now you judge me because of the length of time I’ve been a believer, nice. And to be honest my views and what I just said still doesnt have anything to do with the point Im’ making here! TO TAKE IT TO HIM and stop talking behind people’s backs, which is what this whole website is about. Do you really think you’r going to get to the judgment seat and God is going to reward you for making this huge speech about IHOP and Allen and not even telling them? Do you really think that is what a family does? Let alone the family of God which is meant to be even more loving than a natural family.
    Look mate the fact is you’ve slammed him, your not going to share your beliefs with him, according to you you hold the key to a mighty move of God yet you will not share it with the ministry that needs it most,because of your fear of man because of your being “led by the Holy Spirit you posted on a website away from doing anything effective at all” does that really sound like God?,
    Have a good life. You still dodge the point I’ve been making the whole time. And to be honest what every christian website that judges people behind their back, do you think God would wait till someone gets to the judgment seat before He goes “suprise you were the hindrance to revival” or do you think He would try to tell them. In my opinion, and I say this in love, your being a bit of a coward. And you continue to slam Allen behind his back! Nice one bro
    TAKE IT TO ALLEN/IHOP.
    Love you brother.

    1. Jeff Fenske

      Ben,
      You come on my site, saying it should be shut down because I publicly talk about the false doctrine that Allen Hood taught publicly to many thousands, and you’re just a new ‘Christian.’
      I find this quite amazing.
      And you’re treating this whole thing like it’s a Matthew-18, Christian-sinning-against-a-Christian thing.
      You have your right to your opinion, but I totally disagree.
      This is not a Matthew-18 situation.
      This is a serious doctrinal situation, of which doctrine you also apparently believe — which is your right.
      I don’t have a problem learning from anyone, especially even including non-Christians. I considered carefully what you said and I don’t see any validity in it — honestly. My conscience is clear.
      In the future, if I find that Allen is teaching the truth about who goes to heaven and stops giving people false hope during their willful sinning sins like lust, I’ll put up that information in these two posts, or even take them down. But for now they stand, despite your strong-arm tactics insisting I must do what you say, making this a Matthew-18 thing.
      jeff

  8. Nick

    Jeff, do you still listen to any IHOP teaching, I just listened to a message by Misty Edwards where she was talking about the fear of the lord and loosing your salvation through wilfull sin.
    Curious, how would you say someone can know they still have hope and have not been rejected like Esau?

    1. Nick,
      If Misty’s message is archived online, please send me the link and I’ll listen. And if you hear any other similar messages, I’m interested.
      I’ve always liked Mike Bickle, but they are out of balance in a number of ways — #1 being that God loves us and will receive us no matter what.
      And this is the bias they kept pushing on Facebook too. I challenged them a few times, trying to help them get into balance. Instead of refuting what I said, they pulled my comments and blocked me from posting on their page.
      So I have pretty much given up for now. Something is clearly wrong there, and I think it started way back when they justified having women teachers; even though, this is clearly against what Paul said.
      Now, they’re like most of the churches. On Facebook, for example, they kept posting what I call the “greatest hits” verses, the ones we hear all the time on K-LOVE, etc.: John 3:16, etc.. They never would post any of the balancing, warning scriptures — nothing about the fear of the Lord — none of the dozens of scriptures which say we must overcome.
      So now their church is almost as dead as most churches in America, and the 24/7 worship is hardly worth tuning into anymore.
      I wonder what happened to Wes Hall. If you know anything, I’m interested.
      By the way, since you mentioned Misty: something is wrong there. Every time I’ve watched her lead, I get the sense that she’s performing to get attention for herself, instead of having the sole goal of leading others into worship. The goal is to lead the others with the attention going to God and not the her. I don’t think she’s called to lead worship, like I think Laura Hackett is, for example. Yet, Mike has chosen Misty as the head worship leader.
      Something is really strange there at IHOP. There is a reason why God isn’t showing up.
      jeff

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