NOTE: I Posted this in early January (2010) as a theory, simply titled: My Theory On Divorce, which is radically different to what is taught and practiced by many ‘Christians,’ today, but this is something I’ve believed for many years.
Also, I wrote these two articles to clarify further:
Clarifying My Perspective on Divorce and Marriage: The Role of the Holy Spirit
Divorce and ‘Marriage,’ Part 3: The Anointing — “Tell them about Pastor E.”
– –
Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the bed be undefiled:
but God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterers.
(Hebrews 13:4)
Until now, Marriage/Divorce/Remarriage is a subject I’ve avoided mostly because I haven’t gotten any specific revelations from God on this subject, like I have many others. For example: how tithing is unbiblical, who really goes to heaven, ‘Christians’ James-3 cursing people, how ‘ONE’ can happen (we should be ONE! – John 17), etc. — I’ve hit these subjects hard on this site. But a commenter brought up this subject, so I thought it would be good to discuss it in its own post.
I’ve decided to present my view as a theory that perhaps others and the Holy Spirit will then confirm or clarify. As always, comments are welcome, and also as always, you can be anonymous if you’d like.
Marriage
There are so many people in a quandry. First, so many have gotten married without making sure their spouse was God’s will, and some pastors are happy to oblige.
I know one pastor who said from the pulpit that God doesn’t care who we marry. Really? Really?? [I actually walked out, the first time ever, horrified because I had already seen some of the devastation of this in his life and ministry…] James 4 says:
13 Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow let’s go into this city, and spend a year there, trade, and make a profit.” 14 Whereas you don’t know what your life will be like tomorrow. For what is your life? For you are a vapor, that appears for a little time, and then vanishes away. 15 For you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we will both live, and do this or that.” 16 But now you glory in your boasting. All such boasting is evil. 17 To him therefore who knows to do good, and doesn’t do it, to him it is sin.
Isn’t who we marry more important than where we live? Isn’t who we marry part of what James calls “this or that?” Aren’t we supposed to be led by the Holy Spirit? Isn’t He supposed to lead us into all truth?
Our heavenly Father does care. He didn’t leave us as orphans. We ought to say, “if the Lord wills…” — “Your will be done.” But many have married without making sure, and now, many wish they had….
But that’s not the main issue I’d like to discuss here; though, feel free to comment on this if you’d like. I’d like to present some ideas on this issue:
What if a ‘Christian’ marries one who is unbiblically divorced? Should he/she stay ‘married’? Are they even married in God’s eyes? Can they then marry (though the world would call it remmariage)?
Jesus said twice in Matthew that whoever marries someone who is unbiblically divorced is committing adultery:
Matthew 5:31 “It was also said, ‘Whoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorce,’ 32 but I tell you that whoever puts away his wife, except for the cause of sexual immorality, makes her an adulteress; and whoever marries her when she is put away commits adultery.
Matthew 19:3 Pharisees came to him, testing him, and saying, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason?” 4 He answered, “Haven’t you read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall join to his wife; and the two shall become one flesh?’ 6 So that they are no more two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, don’t let man tear apart.” 7 They asked him, “Why then did Moses command us to give her a bill of divorce, and divorce her?” 8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it has not been so. 9 I tell you that whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and he who marries her when she is divorced commits adultery.”
In today’s false, God-forgives-everything-and-it’s-okay mentality, many ‘Christians’ just think it’s okay to stay ‘married,’ even though Jesus calls what they are doing adultery. They are not truly married in God’s eyes no matter what the pastor who married them said, or the certificate they got from the state says.
Lastblast said this in this comment:
What I found in God’s Word is that many “marriages” in the church today are not “marriages” to God, but are adulterous unions—–unions He NEVER joined as one flesh. What He showed me in His Word is that what we have in the church today is an unprecedented amount of husband/wife swapping……………brethren who are defrauding brethren. Brethren who are not “having their own wives/husbands”, but are taking other’s wives/husbands. What we have are pastors who somehow are teaching that once one punches through that sin gauntlet (whosoever divorces their spouse and marries another commits adultery and whosoever marries one divorced commits adultery) that “voila” they are not [I think he meant now – ed.] joined as ONE FLESH by God.
Where can we find such a teaching in God’s Word? He calls such relationships, adultery (having UNLAWFUL relations with someone who is NOT their spouse). How can one commit adultery AND be married in the sight of God? They can’t. The teaching that once you confess this sin, it is then ok with God to remain in the same relationship is another fallacy. Where do we EVER find in God’s word that confession changes the nature of an illicit relationship? …
So what should one do who is in this situation: legally, but unbiblically ‘married’ to someone who wasn’t biblically qualified to remarry?
First, I think it’s fairly easy to see that they shouldn’t stay married. for they are living in sin, no matter what today’s preachers say. But then, can they rightly marry in God’s eyes someone who is biblically qualified to marry, now that they are legally divorced from a marriage that God never recognized as a marriage?
I think so [providing they seek God to know it this person is the one, as I stated above. This is far more important than where we live. God wants in on these decisions. He wants us to be happy and fulfilled! — not messing around as Fatherless orphans, trying this and that] because in God’s eyes they were never married. They were just committing adultery.
I think these people are Biblically qualified to marry, because they really never were.
It’s time to get out of unbiblical, adulteress marriages. Hebrews 13:4 —
Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the bed be undefiled: but God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterers.
Related:
Clarifying My Perspective on Divorce and Marriage: The Role of the Holy Spirit
Divorce and ‘Marriage,’ Part 3: The Anointing — “Tell them about Pastor E.”
(video) David Pawson Interview on “Divorce & Remarriage” —
Dave
Jeff,
I’ve been married to my second wife for the past 9 years. My first wife has been married to her second husband for about 7 years. The first marriage ended on “unreconciled differences”. I believe that I’m a Christian. Do I end a perfectly good second marriage to my second wife and bring on us all the emotional and financial chaos that a divorce will bring only to ask my first wife to divorce her husband so I can be reconciled to her? Why would the Lord require me to destroy a great second marriage?
Thanks,
Dave
Jeff Fenske
Dave,
The main thing is to be clean, yourself, right with God and people, making sure you’re abiding in Christ, that you are Christ’s and are on your way to heaven. “Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh…,” according to Paul in his who-goes-to-heaven list in Galatians 5.
Have you read Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way? Jump into God. Get right with anyone and everyone you’ve hurt. Apologize.
I don’t know if you can ask your first wife to do anything. You could lead by example though. Cold turkey on sex and lust. That doesn’t cost anything.
If you’ve read my site much, you know that I’m big into being led by the Holy Spirit. “Those who are led by the Spirit are the children of God” – Paul. Jesus didn’t leave us as orphans. The Holy Spirit is to lead us into all truth. But church leaders haven’t taught that, and they teach that we can disobey Jesus’ teachings and still be a Christian. They are in big trouble, and we must forgive those who have led us astray and into messes like this.
If I were you, I would do everything I needed to in order to be able to hear God directly. And then do what He leads you to do, as well as do what you know in your heart is right to do. No excuses. Get clean. Be a real Christian. Most aren’t, and that’s why we’re in the mess we’re in spiritually and economically, the wars…. We need to be a part of the solution, to jump the system, to totally leave Satan’s way to come back to our Father Who will run to us in gladness once we fully come back.
You probably have a lot of baggage, as in evil spirits that have led you from deep within. For example, do you have the love of money which is the root of all evil? You mentioned how expensive this would be. Is that a big concern? Are you willing to do whatever God wants you to do to get things right? Then you would be a Christian, a follower of Christ. Otherwise you’re just doing your own thing. And that’s what got you into trouble in the first place.
We’ve been taught really bad doctrine. That may be the number one cause. Finding good doctrine and choosing to abide in Christ from now on is one of the biggest solutions.
Do you hate people, anyone, honestly, from deep within? A Christian can’t or they’re not a Christian. But sinning over the years allows all of this junk to accumulate (demons), and they gladly empower ‘Christians’ down this false road.
We need to be totally clean. There should be only one Voice that remains. Then it’s easy to know what to do, when we’re resting. We need to be clean so that when we see Him face to face we will have confidence to enter (1 John).
And by the way, thanks for asking for suggestions. Most are just going to keep on doing what they’re doing with grave consequences. I think it’s great that you’re willing to deal with this!
If I was in your situation, I would do this. I would pray forgiving prayers for everyone that I would hold even the slightest bitterness towards. And I would pray them again as often as necessary. I would choose to love everyone from my heart.
I would pray in tongues a lot, which deals with the evil spirits. Forgiving prayers also remove their right to stay. But when we pray in tongues, we help others be free too.
See: A Gift that Will Set Many Free! (A Death Warrant is Out for Your Souls) and
I’ve finally shared much of what I know about and what can be done through the TREMENDOUS and mostly misunderstood and underused gift of tongues.
Praying in tongues is a big deal, especially in this angry, unforgiving age in which the love of most has grown cold.
I would seek God and worship Him, loving Him with all of my heart, soul, mind and strength.
Once we are really in peace, especially in our heart, deep within, then we can hear God. Otherwise we’re bucking. And willful sinners have demons inside that help drive the sin and the attitude.
I would do some of the things I suggested Joshua do in the comments to this article: I’m upping the ante. My $1,500 Challenge is now a $3,000 Challenge!
Go for broke and don’t give up until you find yourself resting in God in freedom. I’ve been single all of my life. You’re not going to die if you’re single. The only person we can control is ourselves (and somewhat our children if we have them). We have to let everyone else go. Releasing people is a healthy thing. We have no right to control. First, we need to take the plank out of our own eyes to be able to then take the speck out of our neighbors’ eyes.
I would work on that plank, and learn to hear God’s voice. Pay attention to your dreams. Take heed to what He tells you daily. I hear God say things many times each day. They’re usually not profound, but they lead me and give me hope.
Tune in. Submit, and be a real man. Who knows, maybe amazing things would happen. But if they don’t we must remain in Him, not watching things we shouldn’t watch on TV, etc., feeling sorry for ourselves. This is the Devil’s trap, and it’s set up bigger and more enticing than ever.
But if we willfully sin we sever our relationship with God. We lose our peace, and we’re part of the problem, not the solution, and on the path to hell.
The joy of the Lord is our strength. We can’t have real joy without fully abiding. See John 15. And if we can get real Christianity happening at a group level not being married won’t be so bad.
See: ‘Let Us Be ONE’ Prophecy Continues 10/8/08: “It’s TOO LATE to REVERSE what’s been done for MY MEN have been REJECTED … Now is the Time to OVERCOME and GET RIGHT With ALL … FREEeeeeeeeeeeeee———DOM at last … Your HEART will SWELL with LOVE and it will be EASY to REMAIN In Me when others are On The BOAT With You”
It’s not so bad. What really is bad is when we don’t deal with these things now and we end up literally frying for all eternity because we weren’t willing to come clean.
Jesus said in Matthew 5 that we need to do whatever we need to in order to not lust and end up in Hell. When He said it’s better to cut off our arm and/or pluck out our eye than lust and go to Hell, He was serious.
We need to take it that seriously. There are many things we can do short of drastic measures like that, which I wouldn’t recommend anybody do. It probably wouldn’t stop lust anyway. But we need to take sexual sin that seriously. It’s totally in Paul’s list in Galatians 5, listing who will not inherit the kingdom, which we know is eternal life, based upon what he says a few verses later in chapter 6.
So that’s my take. God will never allow us to be tempted above what we can bear. He will give you the grace and wisdom to do whatever you should.
No excuses; we must be clean. Imagine standing before Christ at judgment day. Blameshifting won’t cut it. “God will not be mocked. Whatever a man sows he will reap.”
Now’s our time to get and stay free, abiding in Him ONE with each other, having pure hearts, resting.
Jeff Fenske : )
Truth Preacher
Hello. O appreciate your zeal for holiness and purity. We need this. But I must ask you to go and read a small but powerful book written by Jay Adams on Divorce and Remarriage. All “revelations” people claim MUST BE JUDGED by the Scripture, and it is clear to me, you don’t understand what the Scripture teaches.
Christ said that if you marry someone divorced, unless she divorced for adultery, then THAT is adultery. Christ did not condemn all remarriage, just most of them. A women who was betrayed and divorces her betrayer does not cause another to committ adultery by marrying her. It is if she was unBiblically divorced, she does so.
PhileoTruth
@Jeff,
While I agree with your extrapolation from the Bible that re-marriages are in fact adulterous, I completely disagree with your assertion that those marriages should be broken up in divorce. What kind of testimony would it be to the world that Christian re-marriages break up in droves because they were adulterous?!
The institution of marriage is as tainted as every other institution– and if you arbitrarily hold such a hardline against those who have sinned in marriage, then you should hold such a standard against other institutions, such as the church. Does your church permit women preachers? Are there “five-fold” ministers running your church instead of the Biblically defined offices of elders and deacons? Are there multiple tongue-talkers speaking amidst the public worship services at your church? (Please don’t answer. My point is that there are numerous violations of Biblical precepts.)
The position that this post takes is very harsh and hurtful to many in the body of Christ. Purity in the church does NOT begin with breaking up “adulterous” marriages but rather, from those individuals repenting of the sin that ruined the first marriages to begin with. God’s grace is sufficient. None of us has lived out any ideal that Scripture mandates by precept. (Marriage to one person until death is a precept; divorce and re-marriage are not permitted as long as the first spouse lives. Again, I agree with your understanding of these Biblical precepts.)
This article is a yoke of bondage to guilt-inducing (if not anger-producing) works-righteousness as it arbitrarily singles out those having re-married against the Biblical precept. Jeff, I ask that you re-consider your conclusion on this matter. For your proposition, which would lead to unprecedented numbers of divorce, is utterly irresponsible.
(Disclosure: I am married to my first and only wife. Thanks.)
Jeff Fenske
Dear PhileoTruth,
I appreciate your carefully thought out comment. I really do. This is a very important subject, and this could lead to the path of unity in Christ if we get this right.
First of all, I don’t know of a church in Anchorage, Alaska (where I live) that teaches the truth about who goes to heaven, teaches properly on giving and being led by the Holy Spirit, etc.. There is not one church in Alaska that even has a reputation for being alive (Rev. 3:1-5).
However, there is one church which has tremendous potential, Abbott Loop Community Church, which I attend on occasion and their Bible teaching classes somewhat regularly. And with them it’s ‘no’ on your points one and three, and unfortunately it no longer has a five-fold ministry either, in that they don’t have any pr0phets.
What is your beef with 5-fold ministry? Ephesians 4 is pretty clear, which is one of the passages in the header for this site:
10 He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things. 11 He gave some to be apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, shepherds and teachers; 12 for the perfecting of the saints, to the work of serving, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a full grown man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we may no longer be children, tossed back and forth and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in craftiness, after the wiles of error; 15 but speaking truth in love, we may grow up in all things into him, who is the head, Christ; 16 from whom all the body, being fitted and knit together through that which every joint supplies, according to the working in measure of each individual part, makes the body increase to the building up of itself in love.
If you don’t believe Paul here you don’t have a fully Biblical goal.
And it’s these five gifts that are supposed to be working together so Jesus can be head of the church as He is head of them. Then each individual part works together….
Regarding unbiblical ‘marriages,’ you say:
What kind of testimony would it be to the world that Christian re-marriages break up in droves because they were adulterous?!
That would be a wonderful testimony. The world would see that the Christians are finally serious about doing what the Bible and the Holy
Spirit says!
An unbiblical ‘marriage’ isn’t a marriage in God’s eyes, so it can never be okay.
Where does it say in the Bible we can do something wrong and keep doing that wrong thing as long as we admit we are wrong and ask forgiveness for doing it — but don’t turn away from doing that wrong thing — repentance? Where is the Scripture to back up what you are saying?
If unbiblically ‘married’ ‘Christians’ would do the right thing this would be a great testimony to the world that the church is finally taking what Jesus and the Bible says seriously.
This reminds me of the woman at Asbury, who said this, according to Dr. Kinlaw, President of Asbury at the time of this real revival:
“I suppose I had been there about an hour when a young lady came up…and she walked back and knelt side of the seat where I was sitting, and looked up at me and said:
‘Dr. Kinlaw, may I talk with you?’
I said, ‘why yes.’
She said, ‘I need help…. I’m a liar’ [Dr. Kinlaw breaks up with emotion] Excuse me. Forgive me for a minute.
She said, ‘I lie so much, I don’t even know when I’m lying. I am a liar. Now what do I do?’
Well I sat there for a moment or two, and I had never said this to anybody else, but I looked at her and I said, ‘why don’t you start back to the last person you remember that you lied to. Confess it to that person, and ask him or her to forgive you.’
‘Oh,’ she said, ‘that would kill me.’
I said, ‘no, it would probably cure you.’
Three days later, she came to me radiant, and she said, ‘Dr. Kinlaw, I’m free!’
I said, ‘what do you mean, ‘you’re free.?’
She said, ‘I just hit my 34th person and I’m free [Kinlaw raises both hands in the air in the way she probably had]!’
Now that was the kind of thing that was taking place.”
Source: Asbury Revival, 1970: “‘Dr. Kinlaw, I am a liar. Now what do I do?’ … Three days later, she came to me radiant, and she said, ‘Dr. Kinlaw, I’m free!’”
She thought the remedy, the right thing to do was too hard, but this is what was needed to ‘cure’ her.
And how many ‘Christians’ are liars today; even though, the Bible says that all liars will go to the lake of fire (Rev. 21)?
The fact that lying, hating, adultery, unbiblical ‘marriages,’ etc. is happening within the ‘church’ is a product of bad teaching for years and years. Now sin is the norm where women are actually exposing parts of their breasts in ‘church’ and the leaders say nothing — even give them hugs. I saw that last Sunday. The low-cut-top epidemic has hit almost all of the ‘churches’ now. This is shameful.
The solution to the sin epidemics is to take God’s Word seriously, both the written and what the Holy Spirit is saying to the church today.
Business as usual will not bring in real Christianity where we can all be free and walk in love to the Biblically mandated standard: Ephesians 4:11-16, for example.
God’s remedy seems hard, but that’s because people ignored His leading in the little things over and over and over until they did big things, like unbiblically marrying.
This isn’t God’s fault they resisted the Holy Spirit for years and years. This is first and foremost the church leaders who no longer fully teach the word of God. They’re going to get the stricter judgment. But those who willfully followed will also be judged unless they repent.
And if there is serious repentance just at one church we’ll see the Third Great Awakening.
James has the remedy to willful sin. James 4:
1 Where do wars and fightings among you come from? Don’t they come from your pleasures that war in your members? 2 You lust, and don’t have. You kill [James-3 curse], covet, and can’t obtain. You fight and make war. You don’t have, because you don’t ask. 3 You ask, and don’t receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it for your pleasures. 4 You adulterers and adulteresses, don’t you know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who lives in us yearns jealously”? 6 But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.” 7 Be subject therefore to God. But resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9 Lament, mourn, and weep. Let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to gloom. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he will exalt you. …
13 Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow let’s go into this city, and spend a year there, trade, and make a profit.” 14 Whereas you don’t know what your life will be like tomorrow. For what is your life? For you are a vapor, that appears for a little time, and then vanishes away. 15 For you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we will both live, and do this or that.” 16 But now you glory in your boasting. All such boasting is evil. 17 To him therefore who knows to do good, and doesn’t do it, to him it is sin.
To he or she who stay in unbiblical, non-Holy-Spirit sanctioned ‘marriages,’ staying in them is sin. It’s just like having sex out of marriage, because it is out of marriage, literally.
“Those who are led by the Spirit are the children of God” (Romans 8).
Those who aren’t aren’t….
It matters nothing what has become acceptable by society. What matters is what God says.
The truth stands, having been posted almost three years now: Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way | Who are the Children of God?
The truth will set us free!
Jeff Fenske
Jeff Fenske
PhileoTruth,
This morning, it dawned on me that I should show more clearly that Jesus specifically answers your statement: “What kind of testimony would it be to the world that Christian re-marriages break up in droves because they were adulterous?!”
Jesus said in John 17 (which is also one of the texts highlighted in my header) Then the world will know: “that they may be perfected into one; that the world may know.”
Right now, the world smells a rat, and rightfully so, but when born-again Christians finally do what they know they should be doing, getting right with everyone so their consciences are totally clean, ~”Then the world will know.”
And this only needs to start in just one group, like it did at Asbury, 1970. But this time the revival (God’s glory) will remain because we’ve learned that we can’t be a going-to-heaven Christian without having a pure heart.
And the love of money really is the root of all evil. So we need to stop teaching old covenant tithing and teach Holy-Spirit-led living, which is tithing’s opposite.
When we are willing to do what God wants with our finances and our lives, the other sins will easily drop off: David Wilkerson: The Idolatry of Being ‘Successful’ — The Love of Money Really is the Root of *All* Evil
Jesus said specifically in John 17:
20 Not for these only do I pray, but for those also who believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that you sent me.
22 The glory which you have given me, I have given to them; that they may be one, even as we are one; 23 I in them, and you in me, that they may be perfected into one; that the world may know that you sent me, and loved them, even as you loved me. 24 Father, I desire that they also whom you have given me be with me where I am, that they may see my glory, which you have given me, for you loved me before the foundation of the world.
25 Righteous Father, the world hasn’t known you, but I knew you; and these knew that you sent me. 26 I made known to them your name, and will make it known; that the love with which you loved me may be in them, and I in them.”
“that they may be perfected into one; that the world may know … that they may see my glory….”
This is fulfilling the directive to not be drunk with wine but be filled with the Spirit.
This is a tangible feeling that can be felt. It’s compared to being drunk with wine because it’s a feeling that is felt, and has been felt historically in Acts and subsequently. Asbury is a great example. But there are many others.
So the obedient, right-with-God-and-ALL-people church will see God’s glory. They drew near to God and He drew near to them, according to James 4.
They/we will “be perfected into one THAT THE WORLD MAY KNOW.”
Jeff Fenske
PhileoTruth
@Jeff,
I’m not going to comment on the absurdity of the “tangible feeling” of being filled with the Spirit. God does not command us to be led by feelings as evidence of the Spirit, but of the KNOWLEDGE of Christ (e.g., 2 Pet.3:18, Eph. 4:11, compare also Eph. 1:18). There are many other statements in the New Testament epistles to that effect.
John 17 alone does not support your point. The world would know that we are His by ALL of the “one another” verses throughout the New Testament epistles. The totality of the Christian conduct reveals that we are His own, not by how many marriages we break up because we did not follow the legalistic prescription of a zealot singling out a particular passage of scripture.
Your reply has little to do with my objection to the insensitivity of your post. Likewise, your comments about the love of money has nothing to do with the topic either.
—
Secondly, if you are going to take such a hardline against those in their second marriages, then by logical extension, you should take exception to many in their first marriages– how many people (including yourself) have married the first person with whom they had sex? Is it not God’s preceptive ideal that each person would have one sex partner for life– their lawful spouse? So how many people in the church are married to someone other than the first person they had sex with? Should we, by your logic, break up those first marriages?
God’s precepts are right and perfect, but we do not arbitrarily break people up because they did not live up to those precepts. We would not have a church body AT ALL if it became about picking and choosing which of God’s precepts we would enforce.
If you pursue second marriages for adultery, then go after the first marriages that exist between people who were not virgins upon marriage. Your proposition/your theory is a slippery slope that leads only to hurt feelings and greater offenses in the body of Christ. Please recognize this and reconsider your stance. Thank you.
PhileoTruth
One other point– love covers the multitude of sins (1 Pet. 4:8). Christ did not save anybody because they got all of God’s precepts right. Nor does He browbeat us to getting it all right now that we are in Christ.
I am not advocating sloppy Christian living, nor a liberalism that washes away God’s preceptive decrees. I am objecting strongly to the tone of legalism in your proposition. You have singled out a segment of the body of Christ (those in second marriages) to demand of them obedience to God’s precepts as if their “obedience” by way of divorce (something that God hates– Mal.2:16) will rectify the ills of the body of Christ.
PhileoTruth
One other point– love covers the multitude of sins (1 Pet. 4:8). Christ did not save anybody because they got all of God’s precepts right. Nor does He browbeat us to getting it all right now that we are in Christ.
I am not advocating sloppy Christian living, nor a liberalism that washes away God’s preceptive decrees. I am objecting strongly to the tone of legalism in your proposition. You have singled out a segment of the body of Christ (those in second marriages) to demand of them obedience to God’s precepts as if their “obedience” by way of divorce (something that God hates– Mal.2:16) will rectify the ills of the body of Christ.
Let me ask you– when has anyone been able to obey God (e.g., divorcing their second spouses because they are “adulterous”) by disobeying Him (e.g., committing the act of divorce)? Are you not demanding the trade-off of one sin for another? Please reconsider your stance.
Jeff Fenske
Post deleted, which I explain below.
Jeff
PhileoTruth
@Fenske,
What a shameless plug for your other post. I couldn’t care less about the NIV. Heard it all before. Change translations already.
I love the truth, but I also love people– especially God’s people redeemed through faith in Christ.
Okay, self-righteous legalist, why don’t you start the “Christian” crusade to break-up unbiblical marriages among believers and see where that lands you. Since you so sternly observe the Letter, watch how the Spirit is quenched in your life and your fellowship with other believers is diminished.
Go ahead, “prophet,” set the church straight and then let the masses tell me that your position on this is right and mine is wrong. I thought Christians had better things to do (like prayer, evangelism, ministries of helps, etc.) than to needlessly breakup marriages… or maybe just Christians like me and those that I know.
Go on Fenske, straighten out the church! While you’re at it, restore the church to KJV only (which originally had the Apocrypha that most of us Protestants reject). When you’re finished, I’ll look forward to the bonfire consuming your works when we get to heaven. (I don’t dispute that you’re Christian and heaven-bound even though you are severely misguided.)
PhileoTruth
@Fenske,
Will you also crusade about what sexual positions are holy or unholy in marriage while restoring the KJV to the church and breaking up marriages? I mean… why not go whole-hog since these things are clearly the core of the problems in the church?!
Truth Preacher
Don’t put the Authorized Version in the middle of this. I have, by LONG STUDY AND PRAYER arrived at the King James position DUE TO FACTS, FACTS AND MORE FACTS. I do not believe remarriage is adultery. I believe Christ CLEARLY ALLOWED FOR EXCEPTIONS to ” no divorce” and it always assumed remarriage. I learned this from an Authorized 1611.
Jeff Fenske
PhileoTruth,
A few hours ago, before I even saw your responses here, I decided to delete what I wrote, not feeling right about it. I should have been more careful because this is a public forum. I stand by what I said regarding how we can’t continue to do something that God clearly calls sin (a sin that is in the will-not-inherit-the-kingdom, Ephesians-5 list), calling it good because we’ve asked forgiveness. But I should have not said some of the other things. I think it would have been fine in a private email though, which we’re not doing.
I’m not sure yet, but I may write a part III on this subject. You’ve seen part II, right: Clarifying my perspective on divorce and marriage: The role of the Holy Spirit.
I could even just expand part II. I originally wrote at its end: “To be continued.”
And regarding this NIV passage, I just learned a few hours before writing the comment we’re discussing that the NIV had deleted a key portion of Mt. 19:9. I was in the quite-amazed state, and I wrote my response to you too hastily and without enough love. It was kind of a reaction to the epiphany I’m seeing as to how badly the NIV (and similar translations) have affected doctrine and how ‘Christians’ live.
Please forgive me for not being careful and considerate enough.
I’m not a KJV-only person, which I clearly, front and center wrote in the NIV article we’re discussing: Westcott and Hort Magic Marker Binge! Would you take a magic marker to your Bible and cross out words from passages? Do you read the NIV?
And I don’t think that sexual positions are a core problem in the church. If someone is doing something demeaning to their spouse there is some other root cause of that, in my opinion.
Jeff
susan
Hi
My name is Susan, im married two years ago to whom i love in a church. Im in different country and he is in different country from two years. Almost from one and half years there is no communication from him. I tried in many ways to communicate with him, but no use no answer from him. Im still praying to god to change his mind and build my marriage life.
Im only question is whether to continue praying for him in faith or to forget what happen.
I know its always good to follow gods call. Can you please kindly explain me and take out this confusion in my mind.
Thanks,
Susan
Jeff Fenske
Susan,
These type of difficult situations is why I wrote: Clarifying My Perspective on Divorce and Marriage: The Role of the Holy Spirit
Jesus said the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth. The problem is that most ‘Christians’ aren’t even learning how to be led by the Holy Spirit in decisions that are far less emotionally challenging. The majority of ‘Christians’ haven’t been committed to focus on God enough to be accurately led by the Holy Spirit in something this meaningful to us, something we care about so deeply.
And then there are so few groups of believers who are right with God and others so God will draw near to them to where it’s easy to know what to do, because we’re so close to Him. “God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”
Most pastors in the USA, anyway, teach once-saved-always-saved, so most people are just doing what they want to do. And we really have the great falling away — which I’m trying to do what I can to remedy.
I believe that big decisions need big guidance. A friend of mine believes he will know in his heart what is right. But I wouldn’t even think of just going by how I feel, because evil spirits can affect one’s feelings — much less so, though, if we make sure we are holy in every way — so our consciences are totally clear. I also pray in tongues a lot, which helps get rid of any evil spirits. And forgiving people from the heart, especially that guy. That doesn’t mean we let anyone abuse us though. You can pray that God would deal with that person in however He determines is right, and then make sure to have a totally forgiving attitude toward him, not wishing him ill will, etc., as in James-3 cursing.
If our hearts are clean, and we’re free, we probably won’t hear voices that aren’t the Holy Spirit’s, and dreams and/or visions will then not be demon originated. It’s important to record them right after getting them to not forget them, thinking we can write down a dream after we wake up.
If we’re really dedicated to being Spirit-led, then we won’t run with the first inspiration that we get, but we’ll hang in there until we know for sure. I wouldn’t make any decisions like this until I knew absolutely for sure.
“Draw near to God and He will draw near to you” is an absolute guarantee, just like the law of gravity.
Fasting also can help a lot, as well as worshiping in song — committing our entire everything to God. He is the Potter. We are the clay. He knows what’s best.
So to start out with we have Jesus’ clear statement to not divorce except for fornication of the partner. Unless we get 100% clear revelation that divorce is the right thing to do we should not.
And then there is always the factor: was the marriage legitimate to begin with? Was he biblically qualified to marry if he was married before? Was he even unmarried in God’s eyes when you married him? And were you previously married…?”
Those are some thoughts I have. The good part about this is we should be living this close to God anyway, to be free and securely on our way to heaven.
Paul said: “work out your salvation through fear and trembling.” Without the fear of the Lord we don’t have the beginning of wisdom. We will answer to God for what we’ve done. We should have holy fear about not getting it right. This will help us when we seek Him, so we won’t let our own emotions lead us to do something God isn’t leading us to do.
Also, some ‘Christians’ will just think we’re crazy when we insist on abiding in Christ, being led by the Holy Spirit no matter what, even if this means being lonely. But we can’t let them influence our decision to live in the Son.
We need to have pure hearts so we can shine in whatever experience we have. And imagine how grateful God is when He sees us seeking Him to do what He wants us to do — just like Jesus did. He was Spirit-led too (he was that Philippians-2 emptied). He only did the things he saw his Father doing.
We should be so committed to God to do the right thing no matter what.
Does that help?
jeff
susan
Thank you so much for your kind reply… im really encouraged by your words. and to answer your questions, this is my first marriage and to him as well.
Once again thank you so much..i ll definitely do fast and pray.
Susan
Janos J Csonka
I didn’t have a chance to read your book but I’ve seen your video about the marriage!
As I was watching it , thought the sky was falling !
And I think it’s…
I wish I would of known about it sooner !
I wonder , not knowing the truth as you put it , would that change anything????
What about those who can’t even read or wright ?
…or the truth never reached them?
I must say, this is one the most inspirational video I watched ever!
Englis is a second language to me but your words were like a light in the darkness!
I understood what was your message without rewinding it as I usually do !
My faith is still very weak.
How can I have the holly spirit take over in my life and make me stronger ?
I feel the prayers I go it’s not enough.
Or how often should I do it ?
Andreas Georgiou
I am divorced… have been that way for nearly 3 years now. Since then I nearly committed suicide or preacher teaching NO marriage after divorce. I am sure our GOD doesn’t want me to kill myself which is sin. I am a Greek Cypriot and our priests all have said beware of such people as they do the devils work and place bondage and heavy burdens on wounded people. I have read the scriptures for many years and have practiced mercy, forgiveness and patients since my divorce. Tell me, in the time of Christ, what was the penalty of Adultery?… it was death. So why wasn’t the woman who committed Adultery killed? by the law she should have been. Jesus look at them and simply said: “He among you who is without sin, let him cast the first stone” They simply walked away. NOBODY!!! has the right to use scripture to place heavy burdens in such a manor. Christ himself told the pharisees “Whoa to you scribes and pharisees, hypocrites all. Blind guides, you bow before the letter of the law, but VIOLATE the heart of the law JUSTICE, MERCY, GOOD FAITH. “The Greek church teaches the heart of the law is MERCY! all this teaching is doing is bowing to the letter, there is no mercy or understanding in it. Now I am totally against divorce, I hate it, but Love, and mercy should be written on your heart and practiced in life to follow Christ. Otherwise everybody who sinned should immediately put to death. God bless you all, and peace be with you!
Jeff Fenske
Andreas,
Jesus was bringing in the new covenant, which subsequently brought in the Holy Spirit, Whom we are supposed to be led by. And most of the harsh rules of the old covenant law were done away with.
Jesus’ teaching on divorce and remarriage is less harsh, and is meant to apply in the new covenant.
The new covenant also requires a higher level of holiness, because now we have the Holy Spirit to enable us to overcome lust, hatred, lying. Mathew 5, entire chapter, is a key text. When we love God with all of our heart and our neighbors as ourselves, that’s a beautiful place — being led by the Holy Spirit, walking in love.
A main problem is that most church leaders still don’t teach it’s important to be led by the Holy Spirit in who to marry — which causes many problems. Many church leaders have married the wrong person. Many pastor’s wives control the pastors, who then control the churches. It’s very upside down.
Once a person overcomes lust, which is driven by demons if we give into this sin, then it’s not as hard to be single, if that’s what is required.
“LUST ‘the poison that kills the soul’ FREEDOM! My experience: How DEMONS DRIVE heterosexual and homosexual lust in ‘Christians’ — When we realize demons drive lust we can be free!
I’ve been single all of my life, and I definitely don’t have the gift of singleness. It’s better to be single than be married to the wrong woman.
There is so much deception and disobedience in the body of Christ that few people are willing to do what the Holy Spirit has been trying to lead them to do.
The main thing is to get to know God, and be led by the Holy Spirit, wanting to do His will no matter what — and living holy and prayed up so we’re not hearing demonic voices that try to impersonate our own thoughts. Many mistake demons for the Holy Spirit. If we’re hearing conflicting things, only one voice can be the Holy Spirit.
There should be only one voice after we sanctify ourselves through repentance, prayer, forgiving-others-prayers, etc..
If you haven’t already, please read my other posts in this series:
Clarifying My Perspective on Divorce and Marriage: The Role of the Holy Spirit
Divorce and ‘Marriage,’ Part 3: The Anointing — “Tell them about Pastor E.”
God bless,
Jeff
Stephanie Maurin
Hello brother Jeff, thanks so much for your posts, I’ve just begun to browse through your website. I was born into a Christian home and though I was a Christian my whole life until the Lord showed me that I was on a path that led to hell and I needed to repent. He taught me His truth through His word, and brought me out of so many lies in the church that I believed that were keeping me from realizing the truth about my salvation. Thank the Lord, His Word broke through, and He’s established me in His truth. I no longer read books about the Bible, I read the Bible. And I don’t listen to the false teachers that I used to, there are really only a few that I’ve found in this day to be believing the true gospel and preaching the whole word of God. Now, when I was saved, the Lord taught me to be a submissive wife, and a loving mother. These were so clear to me when I was first saved, I knew as soon as the Lord delivered me, that I now had the power to please Him, and this is what He taught me to do. However I came across an article on the internet that had this similar teaching, I believe it was from Evangelical Outreach. And I can see why these verses seem so clear to them. But I can tell you, from being in this situation, that divorce is NOT what the Lord wanted me to do. When I read the article (from E.O.) I was a little shocked, and it seemed to make sense, and believe me, I was willing to do whatever He wanted, and I told my husband that our marriage was unbiblical. Now, I knew this even before I was saved, I knew that when I married my husband (after having been previously married) I was sinning. Of course, I was trusting in the good old once saved always saved teaching, that I wouldn’t go to hell. But I felt like I could never again please the Lord. I wished to be like other “good” christians, but always gave into my flesh. But when the Lord saved me, He showed me that I was on the wrong path – I wasn’t following Him, my decisions were leading me to hell. So when I was saved, knowing all of this, I should have felt conviction to leave my husband, but I didn’t. I decided that from now on, I would sin no more. So when I came across this article, (from E.O.) it immediately seemed to weigh me down again, after having been delivered and free from sin, I suddenly had this huge burden upon me again! I talked with my husband, and planned to leave. But I decided that I better not just trust the words of men again, and I wanted to make sure for myself that this is what God wanted. (Mind you that at this time, I longed to serve the Lord by being a good wife and mother, but now I started having thoughts of being set free from this marriage, and I was willing!) So I looked into the word, very prayerfully, and told the Lord that I would do whatever He wanted, I didn’t want this just to be an excuse to leave my husband. I began to read in 1 Corinthians chapter 7. The church had many similar questions, they too had people who were in all sorts of situations. But the one verse that really stuck out to me was 1 Corinthians 7:17 which tells us(in the context of marriage) that we are to remain in whatever situation we are in when we are called. Now there were other examples as well. Some said that the second marriage was not really a marriage, but when Jesus spoke to the woman at the well, he recognized that she had indeed had 5 husbands, except of course for the one she had now. So you see, my husband today, is still my husband indeed. Some even say that this woman should return to her first husband, but in the Law, that was forbidden. Also, it teaches in 1 cor. that when an unbeliever leaves, we should let them, and that the believer is not in bondage in such circumstances! So if the Law says that we are bound to our husbands so long as he lives, but now the believer is not bound to the unbeliever, why? Because we are no longer under the bondage of the Law, we are free to serve another! So, even though my marriage was sinful, in Christ ALL THINGS are made new! I have a new life, I am dead to my old life. We are not to regard anyone according to the flesh. Today, I will serve the Lord. I believe I am completely right in this, as the Lord Himself has led me to these conclusions, but if I am wrong, I believe I will stand in the judgment because my conscience is clear in this matter. So, please consider these things, from someone who loves our Lord Jesus, and has come to the knowledge of the truth. I love your articles on the narrow way, and who will be saved, and I thank you for sharing the truth with others, I will be posting your articles on my facebook, but please know, that by teaching this subject incorrectly, you may cause your weaker brethren to stumble by putting on them a heavy burden that Christ has already lifted.
Jeff Fenske
Stephanie,
Thanks for sharing. I wrote what I believe is a good foundation that many should consider. I also wrote these other two articles. Please read them if you haven’t already:
Clarifying My Perspective on Divorce and Marriage: The Role of the Holy Spirit
Divorce and ‘Marriage,’ Part 3: The Anointing — “Tell them about Pastor E.”
The main thing is to be right with the Lord (whatever that is), which results in no condemnation and a going-to-heaven, Spirit-filled life:
“There is therefore now *no condemnation* to those who are in Christ Jesus, who don’t walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.” – Romans 8:1
God bless,
Jeff
Jeff Fenske
Stephanie,
Regarding the woman at the well who had five husbands, and was now living with a man, Jesus wasn’t saying whether her husbands were legitimate or not according to God. He was just stating a fact.
Also, this was still in the old covenant. They were still under the law. Jesus also told a man to tithe, because he was still living in the old covenant.
But when Jesus taught, he taught new covenant principles which do apply to us today. He would often say: “You have heard that it was said…, but I say…,” which he did many times in Matthew 5, narrowing the requirements, because now we have the Holy Spirit in which to overcome lust, for example:
“You have heard that it was said, a ‘You shall not commit adultery;’ but I tell you that everyone who gazes at a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart. ….” (Mt. 5:27-28)
Then he says:
“It was also said, ‘Whoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorce,’ 32 but I tell you that whoever puts away his wife….” (Mt. 5:31-32)
Matthew 19 is similar:
Matthew 19:3 Pharisees came to him, testing him…. They asked him, “Why then did Moses command us to give her a bill of divorce….” “I tell you that whoever divorces his wife, except….” (Mt. 19:3-9)
Jesus was teaching new covenant teachings while they were still in the old covenant. This is why Jesus told the disciples in John 14 and 16 that it was better for him to leave them, because the Comforter, the Holy Spirit will come and remind them of what he had taught them. And the Holy Spirit would lead them into all truth.
We have the Holy Spirit to help us understand the nuances about divorce and remarriage not discussed in the New Testament.
What if there is physical abuse?
What if the marriage and divorce happened before the couple were Christians and knew better?
That’s why I wrote my other article, Clarifying My Perspective on Divorce and Marriage: The Role of the Holy Spirit.
Christianity is in such a poor state currently, that most ‘Christians’ have trouble hearing the Holy Spirit’s still, small voice. Many are following familiar spirits instead, or in addition. So there is confusion.
I would encourage everyone to live so holy that there is only one voice to hear, and pay attention to dreams and visions too, recording them right away so we don’t forget them.
And the revival, real Christianity will hopefully soon happen, during which it will be much easier to hear the Holy Spirit and obey, which will happen with many pastors too. Many may actually quit.
The main thing is to do what is right no matter what that is.
Then we’ll have peace in our hearts, the hallmark of abiding in Christ.
Determining to do what’s right no matter what is key — completely submitted to Jesus as Lord of our lives — giving the reigns to Him.
How wonderful it will be when many live submitted to Christ, and fruit remains.
Jeff