Jesus prayed we'd be 'ONE' with each other in Him that the world will know! (John 17)

What the Lord’s Prayer really says about FORGIVING. Jesus made it clear right after “Amen”: “IF YOU DON’T forgive…” VS. Luther’s Catechism: “God forgives WITHOUT CONDITION,” forgiving even “REVENGE”!!!

Everyone who is familiar with the Lord’s Prayer should know that forgiving others is a salvation issue, for Jesus expanded verse 12 in verses 14 and 15 (right after the ‘Amen’).

But many of us only memorized 9b-13. In effect, we were only taught soundbites. And that’s how the great deception has been pulled off. Many don’t even know that verses 14 and 15 exist!

We must be holy — experientially — not just ‘legally’ (a theological term that is currently being used to deceive many).

The Bible teaches: we are only legally, in-God’s-sight holy if we’re actually living holy — right with God and people — enabled and empowered, given GRACE by the Holy Spirit to do so.

According to the Bible, we must forgive. We have no excuses. Forgiving others is a big deal!

May we be ONE in Him!



<< Matthew 6:9-15 >>
King James Bible

9 After this manner therefore pray ye:

Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil:

For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

<< Matthew 6:9-15 >>
World English Bible

Pray like this:

‘Our Father in heaven, may your name be kept holy.

Let your Kingdom come. Let your will be done, as in heaven, so on earth.

Give us today our daily bread.

Forgive us our debts, as we also forgive our debtors.

Bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.

For yours is the Kingdom, the power, and the glory forever. Amen.’

For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you don’t forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Okay, that’s pretty clear, right? But verses 14 and 15 weren’t included in what I had to memorize in the materials I was taught from in Lutheran school and in confirmation class. We were taught our sins are forgiven, period. And that’s what Luther taught in his Large Catechism.
This is how Martin Luther spins Jesus’ words to mean something He didn’t say.
From: Martin Luther’s Large Catechism, translated by Bente and Dau by Martin Luther, not copyrighted.

The Fifth Petition.

And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.

This part now relates to our poor miserable life, which, although we have and believe the Word of God, and do and submit to His will, and are supported by His gifts and blessings is nevertheless not without sin. For we still stumble daily and transgress because we live in the world among men who do us much harm and give us cause for impatience, anger, revenge [James-3 cursing? – ed.], etc. Besides, we have Satan at our back, who sets upon us on every side, and fights (as we have heard) against all the foregoing petitions, so that it is not possible always to stand firm in such a persistent conflict.

Martin Luther believed that we could not overcome serious sins like persistent anger and revenge [Luther actually stated that he intentionally cursed people daily], though the Bible in many places teaches that we must overcome [see: Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way]. The Holy Spirit enables and empowers us, gives us the grace to overcome temptations, to the degree that Paul taught: “No temptation has taken you except what is common to man. God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted above what you are able, but will with the temptation also make the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.” (1 Cor. 10:13)
Now Luther goes into his once-saved-always-saved theme. He taught that we are forgiven no matter what we do, no matter how many and serious are our sins. So he concludes that Jesus didn’t really mean what He clearly said. Jesus’ admonition to forgive others is merely to help us know inside what is true in reality, that we are already forgiven—because we can never be unforgiven.
According to Luther, we don’t have to forgive others in order to be forgiven (Jesus made sure we understood  this is what He meant in verse 12 by his emphatic statements in verses 14 and 15), we forgive others only so we can “obtain consolation to comfort the conscience.”

Therefore there is here again great need to call upon God and to pray: Dear Father, forgive us our trespasses. Not as though He did not forgive sin without and even before our prayer (for He has given us the Gospel, in which is pure forgiveness before we prayed or ever thought about it). But this is to the intent that we may recognize and accept such forgiveness. For since the flesh in which we daily live is of such a nature that it neither trusts nor believes God, and is ever active in evil lusts and devices, so that we sin daily in word and deed, by commission and omission by which the conscience is thrown into unrest, so that it is afraid of the wrath and displeasure of God, and thus loses the comfort and confidence derived from the Gospel; therefore it is ceaselessly necessary that we run hither and obtain consolation to comfort the conscience again.

So, according to Luther, if we willfully sin sins that lead to death, and feel guilty as a result, so that we lose our comfort and confidence before God, even being afraid of the wrath and displeasure of God, this is only an illusion. This fear is unwarranted (even though Hebrews 10:26-39 and many other scriptures say the opposite), and forgiving others helps us feel right with God again; even though, in reality we were right with Him all along.
Jesus said the opposite. We must forgive to be forgiven, and that’s why we feel right after doing so, because then we are right. Martin Luther was clearly a false teacher who was deceived, himself, and tragically, the false doctrines he taught are still widely accepted today!

But this should serve God’s purpose of breaking our pride and keeping us humble. For in case any one should boast of his godliness and despise others, God has reserved this prerogative to Himself, that the person is to consider himself and place this prayer before his eyes, and he will find that he is no better than others, and that in the presence of God all must lower their plumes, and be glad that they can attain forgiveness. And let no one think that as long as we live here he can reach such a position that he will not need such forgiveness. In short, if God does not forgive without ceasing, we are lost.

That’s precisely Jesus’ point. God does not forgive without ceasing, so many are indeed lost, having believed this lie.
We must obey — Jesus.
We don’t have to obey — Luther.
God’s forgiveness is conditional — Jesus.
“God forgives freely and without condition” — Luther (says below).

It is therefore the intent of this petition that God would not regard our sins and hold up to us what we daily deserve, but would deal graciously with us, and forgive, as He has promised, and thus grant us a joyful and confident conscience to stand before Him in prayer. For where the heart is not in right relation towards God, nor can take such confidence, it will nevermore venture to pray. But such a confident and joyful heart can spring from nothing else than the [certain] knowledge of the forgiveness of sin.

But there is here attached a necessary, yet consolatory addition: As we forgive. He has promised that we shall be sure that everything is forgiven and pardoned, yet in the manner that we also forgive our neighbor. For just as we daily sin much against God and yet He forgives everything through grace, so we, too, must ever forgive our neighbor who does us injury, violence, and wrong, shows malice toward us, etc. If, therefore you do not forgive, then do not think that God forgives you; but if you forgive, you have this consolation and assurance, that you are forgiven in heaven, not on account of your forgiving, — for God forgives freely and without condition, out of pure grace, because He has so promised, as the Gospel teaches, — but in order that He may set this up for our confirmation and assurance for a sign alongside of the promise which accords with this prayer, Luke 6, 37: Forgive, and ye shall be forgiven. Therefore Christ also repeats it soon after the Lord’s Prayer, and says, Matt. 6,14: For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, etc.

In the Lord’s Prayer, Jesus clearly gives a condition to us in order for our sins to be forgiven: “as we forgive others who trespass against us.” “For if you don’t forgive….” But this didn’t fit into Luther’s forgiven-no-matter-what theology in which “God forgives freely and without condition.” So Luther concluded that James shouldn’t be scripture because it talks about the necessity of obedience, and Jesus can’t really mean what He is really saying — because it doesn’t fit into the once-infant-baptized-always-saved (OBAS?) formula. Luther turns Jesus’ crystal clear condition that Jesus emphasized after the ‘Amen’ into an unnecessary mental exercise, “a sign” that merely helps us appease our consciences.
We don’t really have to forgive because it’s all ‘automatic,’ anyway. Though Jesus clearly said we need to. This is the deception: OSAS — Once-saved-always-saved.
Jesus said it clearly here and elsewhere, as did Paul, John, and almost every book in the New Testament. We can’t keep willfully sinning sins that lead to death: lust, hatred (unforgiveness on steroids), lying, envy, etc. and be right enough with God and man in order to go to heaven. “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are children of God” — Paul in Romans 8:14. It’s not automatic. There are strings. We must abide in Christ, walk in love, forgiving, having pure hearts of gold.
Jesus in Mathew 6:

14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

How the previous post, “What the Lord’s Prayer really says about FORGIVING…,” came about
Martin Luther: Sin Boldly — “No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day”
Martin Luther’s Subordinate Bible Books: Hebrews, James, Jude & Revelation
Luther: Let us BANISH the epistle of James, for it is ‘WORTHLESS’ — written by a non-Christian and can’t be reconciled with Paul
The Protestant Reformers Were Frauds: By their Fruits You Will Know Them — Martin Luther was a false teacher, a racist, a persecutor and a murderer! John Calvin was a false teacher, a deranged tyrant, a persecutor and a murderer!
Martin Luther Cursed from His Heart Catholic Leaders, ‘Every Day’
Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way | Who are the Children of God? (Where Paul is reconciled with James — and with Hebrews and 1 John — and with Jesus. It all works!)


Sid Roth: GOING to a CHURCH might be a BIG PLACEBO — "This is ETERNAL LIFE: that you might KNOW HIM"


How the previous post, "What the Lord’s Prayer really says about FORGIVING…," came about


  1. Barry

    Re the part where you said, “Everyone who is familiar with the Lord’s Prayer should know that forgiving others is a salvation issue, for Jesus expanded verse 12 in verses 14 and 15 (right after the ‘Amen’).”
    You said it’s a salvation issue. Are you 100% sure about this? Take a hypothetical situation. Imagine a non-believer accepts Jesus into his heart and says that he/she forgives others. We’d agree that this person is saved yes? Even though this person is basically a baby new born christian. He says they they forgive others, but in reality, it may be they need to go through a process of growing into forgiving others. Now. lets imagine that this saved person finds themselves in a really bad spot 1 week later. Somebody breaks into their house and rapes his wife and murders their children. That person would probably be incapable of forgiveness at that moment. Or even days later. Most people would agree right? Ok, so now imagine that person gets run over by a car. Based on your comment, that person is not saved. Why? Because after his wife got raped and his kids murdered, he was full of hatred and unforgiveness. Oops.
    You see, in the day to day world when things are not so bad, it’s easy to talk about forgiveness etc etc in a way that makes it look black and white. In reality, life makes some things impossible.
    I think it would be fair to say that God fully understands the implications of what he did when he died on the cross. He dealt with sin. If we complicate this by saying that there are conditions by which you are not saved. Such us not forgiving somebody, then Jesus never dealt with sin once and for all. When Jesus taught his disciples how to pray, I hope I’m correct in thinking that it was in a Paternal context, not a salvation context. Forgiving others is essential and we were forgiven. But if that is a condition of salvation, then most of us are in trouble. And what Jesus did was only partial.
    People are saved in their last breath because they simply believed in Jesus Christ. And God’s grace allowed it. Perhaps there are implications for them (i wouldn’t know this) due to unforgiveness, but they are saved.

  2. Jim

    OBAS? Once Baptized, Always Saved? What are you talking about? Who believes that? Catholics Baptize babies, but they don’t teach that. Protestants who do the same say that that baby must make a personal act of faith later.
    It is the denominations that oppose infant Baptism that hols OSAS.

    • Jeff Fenske

      They may not outright teach it, but that is what at least many Lutheran churches practice. I know firsthand.
      In our confirmation class we never said a prayer to get born-again and to serve God forever, because it was a given that we were saved when we were sprinkled as infants.
      In the Lutheran church (probably with few exceptions) it’s about what God did for us when we were baptized, and then believing that God did this for us when we were baptized.
      “It’s a dead religion,” I believe God is saying, and I’ve personally seen this to be true.
      Look at Luther’s own life in my “Luther Didn’t Get It” posts. This is not what the Bible teaches.
      In my experience in the Wisconsin Synod, being a Lutheran is about believing that you are saved, which is what Luther taught; though, we won’t be saved unless we are abiding in and following Christ, according to what the Bible really says: Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way | Who are the Children of God?.

  3. Anonymous

    Luke 17:33 Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it.
    In other words, if we think we have salvation through works, then we will lose our life. If we die to self, and have faith in Jesus, then we are saved.
    If anybody is in any doubt about salvation, then here it is:-
    Mathew 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
    34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
    37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
    40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
    41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
    44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
    45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
    46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
    So, all this talk about salvation kind of peels into insignificance when you read the above. Now, to understand how merciful God is, read this:-
    Mathew 25:14 “Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his wealth to them. 15 To one he gave five bags of gold, to another two bags, and to another one bag,[a] each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. 16 The man who had received five bags of gold went at once and put his money to work and gained five bags more. 17 So also, the one with two bags of gold gained two more. 18 But the man who had received one bag went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.
    19 “After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. 20 The man who had received five bags of gold brought the other five. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with five bags of gold. See, I have gained five more.’
    21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’
    22 “The man with two bags of gold also came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with two bags of gold; see, I have gained two more.’
    23 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’
    24 “Then the man who had received one bag of gold came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your gold in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’
    26 “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
    28 “‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten bags. 29 For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
    So in a nut shell it’s like this. Believe in Jesus and go and do/seek his will. Even if you do something with the little you have, then it will be noted and counted for. Even if you fail. What a merciful and fair God we have.
    We could spend all year arguing what sin would make us unsaved, but it’s clear what really matters. Think about how the Pharisees tried to pull Jesus up when corn was being picked on a Sabbath. I wonder what Jesus would be saying to us lot if he were walking down the road with us. Imagine we find ourselves swearing a lot whilst running a soup kitchen because of all the riff raff that turns up. Is Jesus really concerned with every small mistake we make? Think about it.

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