(video) Debate: Who Makes The Final Choice in Salvation, God or Man? — “Scripture says: choose whom you will serve. You’ll be commended for choosing rightly and condemned for choosing wrongly. This is God’s sovereign choice” – Michael Brown | Calvinism is the great cop-out, giving those who aren’t overcoming false comfort in their willful sin

Well, thank you Jeff. I appreciate the time and effort you exerted in producing a stirring reply. One item of advice that will benefit us both: please address one thing at a time. As we are limited in our communication by the blogosphere, conversation takes on a different form. The form of communication makes it very difficult to convey propositional points, being that they are often coupled with other propositions, and can easily be ignored. In order for them not to be ignored, each must be individually dealt with, which can require quite the amount of labor. There are dozens of things that I want to address in your post, and it would be better if I could address one thing at a time. So I would appreciate your discretion there.

“[Many people think] they are going to heaven because of extreme doctrine that is based upon a few verses.” This statement astonished me. Pardon my ignorance if this is the case, but I have never heard of a Calvinist using their Calvinism to stall from sanctification. This brings me to an important point: let us deal with each other as we present ourselves – not our systems. I will not throw extreme stereotypes on you, and I hope you will give me the same benefit. The Calvinism that you expressed in your post is not anything like the “Calvinism” that I love and cherish as Biblical doctrine. So be careful with that, as I seek the same caution.

Regarding your point, the distinction is that Calvinists assert both (pressing on and eternal security) just as Paul does in Phil. 2:12-13. “Work out your salvation with fear and trembling… for it is God who works in you.” There is obviously an imperative for the Christ follower to continue in their faith, to press on towards the goal; nevertheless, the believer is comforted by the fact that God is indeed working in them. Hopefully that clarifies a few things in regards to my Calvinistic position.

“They then have to throw out many dozens (Michael mentioned many) to keep their theology intact.” I am aware of the many dozens of “proof-texts” for “debunking” Calvinism. I hope you do not see me as one who has not wrestled with this subject, because I certainly have. Arminianism is certainly easier to preach, but I cannot get around the authority of Scripture. Regarding the texts that Michael mentioned, there are many coherent responses from Calvinists. The essence of hermeneutics is to allow the Bible to interpret itself, not combat itself. Those texts are not in opposition to “Calvinistic texts.” So I want you to know that I do not have to “throw out” these texts. I keep the texts, I love them, and I take them in their literal meaning, but I also allow the Bible to interpret those texts – not me. Calvinism is a grand or hidden perspective, one that incorporates imperatives, free will, and anthropomorphic perspectives. These Arminian texts do not deny the grandeur of Calvinism, but are parts of the whole.

“And most Calvinists I know don’t seem to have much of a prayer life or victory over sin.” Ouch. I wish I could talk to those Calvinists and reprove them. I am sorry that these bad misrepresentations have governed your view of Calvinism. I know that I can testify regarding my own life that prayer is the very crux of my spiritual life. Prayer is the essence of my communion with God, and I do this as a Calvinist, really because I am a Calvinist. But like I said, please do not typecast Calvinism by its sorry followers, but rather by its Scriptural precedent. I know a many repugnant Arminians, but I do not automatically assume that this is because of their soteriological perspective.

“Once-saved-always-saved and ‘it’s hard to lose one’s salvation’ is the prevailing doctrine today, true among non-Calvinists too. It gives people the license to willfully sin and still be in right standing with God to go to heaven.” Scripturally, the “seal” of our salvation seems to be boldly attested in Romans 6-8, as well as Phil 1:6 and Hebrews 12:1-12 – i.e., God authors and finishes our faith. Nevertheless, the strongest Scriptural teaching, for me, comes from 1 John 2. Proposition 1: “They went out from us…” – We see that people do indeed leave the fellowship of the church body, for it is well noted in the scriptures, and does not call for doctrinal alarm. Prop. 2: “…but they were not of us…” – Here is an important distinction to chew on; one can be from what they are not of. Fellowship does not constitute factual authenticity. Prop. 3: “…for if they had been of us…” – Notice John’s revisit to of, the latter preposition, which is most likely purposed in enforcing the already made distinction. Prop. 4: “…they would have continued with us…” – Would have expressed the inevitable perseverance forsaken upon the deportee’s leaving from the church, all the while affirming that continuation is an absolute for those of the church, whereby John also inserts us into the passage as a possible dedication of sorts. Prop. 5: “…But they went out that it might become plain that they all are not of us.” – to its ultimate end, the purpose was to edify the church body in exposing the false and shallow apes of the faith. The “seal” of the Holy Spirit does not occur outside of us – extra nos – but within us; it transforms us, therefore giving no license or permission to stall, because our motives are now spiritual not carnal.

Romans 8 is a great chapter of Scripture, probably my favorite. The most edifying exegesis of that chapter has come from John Owen (Mortification of Sin), whom I highly suggest for you to read. He presents a Calvinistic perspective in pursuing the mortification of the flesh – by no means stalling because of our justification.

Your article on IHOP (which I was thoroughly confused until I realized that you weren’t referencing the restaurant) is odd to me. I do not see a Biblical purport to dismiss eternal security. That can be a discussion for another time.

“Regarding John Calvin, I don’t believe he was a real, going-to-heaven Christian. He was not a Spirit-led man.” This is where I got a little upset with you Jeff. Not only did you judge the heart of another man, but you used false and bad history to do so. Have you ever read Calvin? Have you ever read one scholastic biography on the man? I can answer “Yes” both to those questions, and strongly contest your claims. Servetus was put to death, but not by Calvin. Calvin was not the pope of Geneva. Calvin was governed by a council, and that council put Servetus to death for his non-Trinitarian heresy, against Calvin’s judgment! Servetus and Calvin exchanged several letters between each other, all of which are noted in T. H. L. Parker’s biography. Servetus even stayed in Calvin’s house when Servetus was “running from the law.” These facts have been communicated to me from real historians, scholars, and I would take the opinion of these men rather than those who have never even read Calvin. I would suggest that you do the same before you make the rash decision to make Calvin out to be a murderer and unbeliever. Nevertheless, even if I found the man to be such, it would not change my theological position. I call myself a “Calvinistic” simply for your benefit. It communicates a theological identification for you about myself. I came across my theology from Scripture, then I started reading men like Jonathan Edwards, John Calvin, Spurgeon, etc., and they systematized the thought for my organizational convenience. The system was organizational, not foundational.

Brother, I hope I do not seem arrogant or prideful. I do not hold these truths to be the result of my increased intellect or my own efforts. I simply see these things in Scripture, and I desire to declare the truth of God and His gospel, which is contained within the revelation of His word. I do hope that we can both love each other within the union of the gospel, and not belittle each other’s faith for the sake of our own interests.

Faith, hope, and love.

TT