Both texts are from Scroll Publishing: Let Your Sins Be Strong: A Letter From Luther to Melanchthon Letter no. 99, 1 August 1521, From the Wartburg (Segment) Translated by Erika Bullmann Flores from: _Dr. Martin Luther’s Saemmtliche Schriften_ Dr, Johannes Georg Walch, Ed. (St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, N.D.), Vol. 15,cols. 2585-2590.
Luther clearly believed in once-saved-always-saved false doctrine (also called eternal security) to the fullest extent! This is so sad. I was raised a Lutheran. No wonder why the church had no life.
What Luther actually said was edited out of the texts the pastors read in seminary, which is shown here. But nevertheless, Luther said it.
This is the opposite of what the Bible teaches.
This is the same paragraph as the one which follows, but this is from the Weimar Edition (first published in 1883), which apparently ellipsed out Luther’s most extreme remarks.
13.”If you are a preacher of Grace, then preach a true, not a fictitious grace; if grace is true, you must bear a true and not a fictitious sin. God does not save people who are only fictitious sinners. Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly. For he is victorious over sin, death, and the world. As long as we are here we have to sin. This life in not the dwelling place of righteousness but, as Peter says, we look for a new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. . . . Pray boldly-you too are a mighty sinner.” (Weimar ed. vol. 2, p. 371; Letters I, “Luther’s Works,” American Ed., Vol 48. p. 281- 282)
Here is the non-sanitized version. Here, Luther teaches once-saved-always-saved to the max! And this is the main problem with America today. Luther started as so deathly afraid of God that he embraced a doctrine that he knew at least some of the NT writers didn’t even teach, so he would never have to fear God again, even when boldly sinning—until he saw Him face to face—when it was too late (unless he totally repented before he died—which I don’t know of an record of).
13. If you are a preacher of mercy, do not preach an imaginary but the true mercy. If the mercy is true, you must therefore bear the true, not an imaginary sin. God does not save those who are only imaginary sinners. Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides. We, however, says Peter (2. Peter 3:13) are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth where justice will reign. It suffices that through God’s glory we have recognized the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day. Do you think such an exalted Lamb paid merely a small price with a meager sacrifice for our sins? Pray hard for you are quite a sinner.
This is the exact opposite of what Paul taught in Romans 6:1-2 and elsewhere.
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? May it never be! We who died to sin, how could we live in it any longer?
Let’s be free!
Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way | Who are the Children of God? (Where Paul is reconciled with James — and with Hebrews and 1 John — and with Jesus. It all works!)
Martin Luther’s Subordinate Bible Books: Hebrews, James, Jude & Revelation
Martin Luther Cursed from His Heart Catholic Leaders, ‘Every Day’
Ed Colton
I agree along with Hebrews 6:1-2, also Heb 3:12,3:6. 3:14′ 10:25 and 39
2 Peter 2:20; and so many more . YOU CAN LOSE YOUR FAITH AND THUS SALVATION. I READ THE WORD FOR WHAT IT SAYS, NOT RATIONALIZE IT. HIS GRACE IS SUFFIECIENT FOR US, YET WE CAN FALL FROM HIS GRACE.
Angellay
helloo brother in Christ There is a misunderstanding between us. because of I am Angel of love user of oflove09@gmail.com it is right but I am not that man
whose are you talking person.
m
Barnard
I think you may be missing the point of what Martin was saying. Remember, this was the Protestant reformation – a breaking from the Catholic Church. The point here is not to say sin without cause or care, for than he would be like the pagans. The point of this text is to emphasize salvation throught grace, and not by works. This was something the Catholic Church had lost sight of. You will sin, even after you proclaim Christ as Savior, but now you do so with the confidence of salvation. Why? Because you love Christ even more boldly.
Smashing Idols
what a sick license to sin you believe.
Michael Boyle
Amen! I think you’ve got it right.
Jeff Fenske
Barnard,
I wish you were right, but history indicates that Luther’s “No sin can separate us from Him” false doctrine affected both what he taught and how he lived. But the entire truth about Luther has been kept from most Lutherans, including myself—until I broke out of the box to discover what really is going on.
I don’t know about you, but I was taught a sanitized version of Martin Luther. I saw him as a hero who could do no wrong, so to be called a ‘Lutheran’ was something really special. But there is a lot they withheld from us to keep the myth going. Even this text was edited so Luther wouldn’t look so bad.
I still see Luther as a hero in how he stood up against the tyrannical Catholic church so boldly. But he threw out the baby with the bathwater. And he cursed back (linked above), which is a damnable offense (“Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer,” and many others show this. See especially my “Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures…”, linked above.
Jesus forgave. Stephen forgave. Luther…. And cursed boldly did he. If you’re going to sin, you might as well really sin, said he. The way Luther really lived is out there, if you really want to know. My point here is not to bash Luther, but to help people realize that he never got it, himself, so a denomination shouldn’t have been named after him. And we shouldn’t count on infant baptism and confirmation as being ‘in.’ Being ‘in,’ according to the Word of God, is abiding in Christ after having been truly born-again.
What does history really say about Luther, and what does the Bible really say about who goes to heaven and what is real Christianity. The Lutheran concept of ‘grace’ isn’t the Biblical concept of grace. “Grace teaches us to say, ‘no’….
The Bible emphasizes holiness, one with God and each other. Luther went off in a completely different direction based largely upon Paul’s intros, ignoring numerous passages. And many millions have gone and are going to hell because of this terribly destructive doctrine of greasy grace, thinking they’re bound for heaven.
May we be holy and locked in, one with Christ and each other—Jesus’ way (John 17).
jeff
ET
Jeff,
Now that you are out of the Lutheran box and “saved” tell my how you have managed to free yourself from sin? It must be very satisfying knowing you are living in the narrow way and among an excusive few who have got it right, while the rest of us who confess Jesus are lost. How many times does Jesus talk about being born again, by the way? If so vitally important as you insist then you would think it might have come up more often in Jesus’ conversations rather than just once in the night with only one other person. I have been down the “born-againaism” road myself and it’s just as falacious as all that theology you refute. It’s yet another form of Pharisee-ism.
Jeff Fenske
ET,
Being born-again is just the start, as I show here:
Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way | Who are the Children of God?
jeff
rick roberts
Define sin. Sin is less about the naughty things we do and more about our human nature that causes us to do them. Original sin was not the act of eating from the forbidden tree, it was in Adam and Eve deciding that what they wanted to do was more important than what they knew God wanted them to do. it was in not putting god first.
This inability to put god first is that part of our sinful nature Luther was addressing. “sin boldy…” means “Be a human and do not despair that you aren’t good enough to get into heaven. If only deserving people made it into heaven, it would be a lonely place. We are not saved because we are worthy, but because God loves us anyway.”
Jeff Fenske
Rick,
Willful sin that keeps us from heaven after we’re truly born-again is specifically explained in my “Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures…” post, linked above, if you’re interested. The Bible is actually very specific; though, most pastors don’t teach what the Bible really says. So we must read it for ourselves. The deception in the last days will be great, Jesus said.
Those who are led by the Spirit are the children of God — Romans 8:
“Sin boldly” isn’t anywhere in the Word of God. It’s a doctrine of demons. We must be holy.
jeff
Michael Boyle
But you cannot be holy apart from Jesus Christ. That’s Luther’s point. He was NOT advocating intentional sin. His point was sticking it to the devil when Satan would throw Martin’s sins in his face. Luther was saying, “Haha, you can’t have me, devil! See how grace abounds all the more when I sin? So go back to hell and leave me alone. I know one who has made the propitiation for my sins. His name is Jesus Christ, Son of God, and where He is, there I shall be also!” For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and that is not of your own doing… look into the context before trying to bash someone for saying something. Luther did have some crazy ideas, but I believe he was truly saved by God’s grace, and is in heaven right now, having won the battle and kept the faith.
John Knight
Sounds like Mr. Fenske subscribes to the old Pelagian heresy.
Can we stone him?
Jeff Fenske
Mr. Knight,
You are incorrect. Mr. Fenske absolutely believes in original sin, and that we all need the grace of God to overcome sin. Without Him we can do nothing.
But we are responsible to then overcome sin by His grace. We are responsible for our own actions. Titus 2:
God has sovereignly determined to give us free will. He has sovereingly chosen not to control each man’s destiny. If He did, this would make Him an ogre, a puppeteer — not much unlike the Greek gods.
One of my professors actually taught that we just think we have free will, that God can only know the future because He controls everybody. And this was at an evangelical seminary. How’s that for heresy?
I do not subscribe to the teaching that God decides who goes to hell and who goes to heaven. Jesus died for everyone, and wants everyone to come to the knowledge of the truth and go to heaven.
Though most aren’t.
1 Timothy 2:
And no, we shouldn’t stone anyone, nor should we wish evil on anyone, even our worst enemy (Mt. 5, James-3). This is witchcraft.
Jeff Fenske
arccoe
Is this you, Mr. Calvin?
John Vian
Perhaps we should go to hell and ask Martin Luther, Aleister Crowley, Anton LeVey, Karl Marx, John Lennon, along with trillions of those who went there, if walking in the sins of the lust of our flesh was worth the risk of losing our salvation. The doctrine of once saved, always saved comes from the pit of hell. I was thrown out of a Foursquare church for that statement. Jesus wasn’t very popular either.
Smashing Idols
the doctrines of Balaam and Jezebel include OSAS. rev 2
9once saved always saved)
dino
hi there,
thank you for posting. what you said is the truth.
I concur
God bless you Jeff Fenske
Jeff Fenske
Dino,
Thanks!
Jeff : )
irene
WHERE THERE IS NO LAW THERE IS NO TRANSGRESSION. YOU ARE NOT UNDER LAW BUT UNDER GRACE. We have been forgiven having the written code canceled that was against us. Blessed is the man whose sins are covered and will never be counted against him. Look at Abraham or King David.
THE SIN OF UNBELIEF IN JESUS CHRIST, THIS IS THE ONE THAT KEEPS PEOPLE OUT OF HEAVEN,IN BOTH THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS. THAT’S WHAT JESUS SAYS IN JOHN’S GOSPEL.
We grow in grace through the renewing of our minds. The only command we have is to love each other as Christ has loved us, and even that has a clause – owe no man anything except the the continuing debt of love.
Doing sins or not doing them don’t do anything for or against us with regard to Salvation, BECAUSE that debt has been fully paid by Jesus Himself and the just requirement of the law has been fully met in our flesh, we die because of sin.
On top of that Jesus has also lived a perfect life in your place, what more could you ask for. So after getting all this for free what do you want to do? Does this make you want to go and kill people or tell people the good news?
He is our Justification, our Sanctification and Redemption. He changes you that’s His work not yours.
So if you are doing well then give the Glory to Jesus as He is the One that has done it via the Holy Spirit who calls no attention to Himself.
How do you know that these words are not a good work?
Here is a question did your sin nature leave you? If you are still breathing you still have it, when you stop it will be gone.
If you judge a person’s faith like Luther or anyone else you are judging Jesus because faith in Christ is a gift from God and it is Holy. At whatever point you judge, you are judging yourself.
Did Luther believe in Christ, did the thief on the cross believe in Him? Can you see into a man’s heart and judge it? You can disagree with a teaching but leave the judging to Jesus.
Luther says that to be forgiven you must have real sin not the Roman Catholic Churches’ ideas about it. You have not read much on Luther at all and I wonder if your Prof did either as both of you don’t understand what he said and have taken out of context what he’s talking about.
Simply put, a Christian can be himself in front of God without fear so that you are not faking goodness, and if one is honest he will see the sin that Christ died for, since nothing good dwells in us.
HE’S NOT TELLING PEOPLE TO SIN, HE’S JUST SAYING, BE BOLD ENOUGH TO BE YOUR SINFUL SELF IN FRONT OF GOD KNOWING THAT YOU ARE FORGIVEN AND LET HIM CHANGE YOU, THROUGH HIS WORD.
Jeff Fenske
Irene,
I appreciate where you are coming from. I was raised Wisconsin Synod Lutheran. I attended WELS schools K-12. My father attended St. Paul’s Lutheran Grade School and Dr. Martin Luther High School in New Ulm, Minnesota. My mother and father were in the same grade school classes, and she attended Dr. Martin Luther College, and was a Lutheran grade-school teacher.
My great grandfather was a Lutheran pastor, and my grandmother (his daughter) was a radical Lutheran, whom I think had a great affect on my life. I’ll be posting her autobiography soon.
I remember being very impressed, when our class watched the black and white “Martin Luther” movie in our grade school’s cafeteria. Later, I read “Here I Stand,” all 300+ pages.
I still find much of what Martin Luther did heroic: “I cannot, and I will not recant!”
In fact, I think Luther, in part, may have inspired me to take my own stand, when I found out what the Bible really said about what Christianity is, once I read it for myself, which my Lutheran education didn’t do.
Luther was clearly a pioneer, taking on the Catholic church, which needed taking on. But Luther never really figured out what Christianity really is, which is why I title my Luther-category, “Luther Didn’t Get It.”
The Germans never should have named a religion after a person’s name. It’s just not right. Do you think the Apostle Paul would have allowed that? He said: “follow me as I follow the Lord.” He didn’t even just say: “follow me.” He wanted people to think for themselves and to not put him on a pedestal.
Where is this in Lutheranism? What percentage of Lutherans read the Bible themselves to make sure that what Luther taught was true?
We were only taught one side of Luther, but there is a dark side that is hidden even from seminary students, just like the despicable things John Calvin did are mostly whitewashed from Calvinistic seminary textbooks.
Much of deception is done this way. It’s what the media doesn’t tell us that allows them to push forward the one-world government agenda. It’s what the history books don’t tell us that allows serious deceptions to continue, sometimes in the form of institutions.
And it’s when people don’t carefully read their own Bibles, with the help of the Holy Spirit and each other, do we get hoodwinked into what we have now in America. It’s almost this bad, 2 Timothy 3:
1 But know this, that in the last days, grievous times will come. 2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 without natural affection, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, no lovers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God; 5 holding a form of godliness, but having denied its power. Turn away from these, also.
Luther actually had some of these traits (of which I bolded), if one looks at what he became, having believed his own “sin boldly”/”No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day” doctrine.
This is the very antichrist doctrine that is setting America up for a fall. And if Lutherans and ‘Christians’ don’t come out of this, most will end up where Luther probably has (unless he did some serious repenting and getting right with his neighbors before he died. And there doesn’t seem to evidence of this happening).
Please see what the Bible really says about who goes to heaven and who are the children of God: Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way.
I think Luther’s doctrine was a knee-jerk overreaction to his unhealthy view of God. He went from being deathly afraid of God to not being afraid of God at all. He saw a few texts in Paul’s introductions to Paul’s letters. He assumed they meant a certain thing, and then he tried to unsuccessfully reconcile everything else in the New Testament with these introductory statements, which Paul explains later in his letters, as do other New Testament authors, some of their works he actually rejected, especially James. When he saw these clearly contradictory-to-his-theory statements, it seems that Luther had already made up his mind. He was bullheaded and stubborn, and in many ways not teachable (He said himself how he was tormented with demons). He plowed on with his theory. And it became accepted by many who were even willing to call themselves by his name.
How could the German people be so gullible? How could they be again so gullible when most of the Lutheran pastors followed Hitler (Bonhoeffer being one of the few exceptions)? I think largely because his personality was so forceful, and the people didn’t do their own research. Most still didn’t have Bibles, but many were probably like people today who wouldn’t do the research anyway. They just go with what is popular. And Luther had some heavy hitters who backed him, because he backed their reverse-Christian oppression of the peasants.
Luther was not a nice guy, which you will see if you read my other Luther Didn’t Get It posts. You’ll probably be shocked. Because they didn’t teach us this stuff. And I don’t think I have in there yet that Luther stated something like all women are good for is having children.
As a mature adult, I don’t think Luther was ever able to rest in God, to be able to hear God’s voice, which is where every Christian should be (according to the Bible), but it’s even more important when discerning doctrine. Jesus said, “when the Spirit of truth comes, he will lead you into all truth.”
Luther made up his own salvation doctrine, which is almost certainly a doctrine of demons. Luther admitted he was tormented by demons, and I think he was probably also greatly influenced by them. He didn’t even want to forgive, in many cases, and he seemed to stay angry all the time. And he never learned how to pray in tongues, which the Wisconsin Synod has largely rejected; even though, it’s very clearly in the word of God to help us build up our faith.
Having said all of that, I understand very well how Luther was absolutely hated by those he mostly rightfully opposed. Luther was James-3 cursed 24/7, probably for the rest of his life. [I have a category in the pull-down menu called ‘Christians’ Cursing People]
I know a lot about this personally, because I have been James-3 cursed by evangelical leaders (not Lutherans, thankfully, who really mostly smiled on me — one in particular, who called me the other day) whom I tried to help. And I’ve gone through a lot in trying to be free. We both were hated, Luther, I’m sure even more so, but Luther hated back. And that’s a big no-no in the kingdom. That is salvation disqualifying. He not only did it, he openly stated that he did, that he cursed them every day. For example, from Martin Luther Cursed from His Heart Catholic Leaders, ‘Every Day’:
” I will curse and scold the scoundrels until I go to my grave, and never shall they hear a civil word from me. I will toll them to their graves with thunder and lightning. For I am unable to pray without at the same time cursing. …”
Perhaps you’re seeing the point, especially if you read what we weren’t taught, the other side of Luther, the part they didn’t want us to see, because then we would question and the Lutheran ‘church’ would fall apart.
There should never be a Lutheran church, just as their shouldn’t be a Pauline church or a Fenskian church (my name). Jesus should be the head of the church. The leaders are only there to help the people be led by Him, directly. “My sheep know my voice and they follow Me.”
We’re supposed to be Christians, not Lutherans or Calvinists. How in the world did the people let this happen in the first place? Perhaps it’s like Israel wanting a king. People want to follow a man instead of God, Himself.
In thinking about how to respond here, as well as how to help Lutherans see in general, I’ve decided to write an article, showing how Martin Luther was actually disqualified to even be a church leader based upon Paul’s elders’ qualifications in 1 Timothy and Titus. I hope to post this soon, if you’re interested.
I encourage everyone to read especially the New Testament for themselves. We don’t have the excuse that many had in the past, who didn’t even have access to a Bible.
And I encourage people to look at what I’ve put together on this site. I’ve spent much of my life thinking about and researching these topics. And I believe I’ve actually heard the Holy Spirit, Who has helped me sort through the truth and the disinfo to see what really isn’t the Matrix.
It’s like politics: the republicans verses the democrats, when they’re both in the Matrix. They’re both leading America astray. Ron Paul was the only clearly non-Matrix republican — and then Chuck Baldwin — both of whom were mostly ignored by the ‘Christian’ pastors.
The Lutheran ‘church’ is a facade, just as the others mostly are. I’m more in the evangelical camp, but that’s mostly a facade too. Real Christianity is hard to find these days, and sadly, I think it’s largely because almost all pastors today teach some version of Luther’s “no sin can separate us” salvation doctrine.
Now, I’ve spent a couple of hours writing this. I’m not a speed boy, just throwing stuff out there. I care, and I think things carefully through. This is really important stuff. What could be more important than where we spend eternity, and whether we were real Christians or not.
When we die, we will meet Jesus in all of His glory and we will be judged by total holiness. If we’re not right with Him, we can’t say, “but I was Lutheran. I was taught that no sin can separate….”
We must be holy. We must be right with God and people. We can’t just waltz in their because we followed Luther, who didn’t follow Christ completely enough, himself.
Jesus is the Judge. He decides, and He gave us the Bible so we would know. But we’re counting on Luther to interpret it for us, a man who was filled with hate 24/7!??? And the pastors who continue Lutheranism just go to seminary, read the same sanitized histories of Luther, and teach his false salvation doctrine — without doing careful, led-by-the-Holy-Spirit research. Seminaries don’t encourage that. They grade on how well students absorb the material. Those who don’t question get a vicarship, and eventually a pastorate.
This is the Matrix. It’s a movie at least worth reading about: Most ‘Christians’ are in THE MATRIX! G. Edward Griffin’s description applies to ‘Christians’ also. Let’s take the red pill and get free from the trance!
We have this season right now in America, where we can figure things out and get our act together before things are probably going to get really bad. We’re going to need to be filled with the Holy Spirit in order to be able to endure mentally and spiritually.
Now is the Time to Get Ready, Full of Me is part of a prophecy that I got. You might find it interesting:
Now is the Time to Get Ready, Full of Me
A way that is right for a man is not My way. You must obey.
No heroes,
no John Waynes,
none that disobey,
thinking they are so cool.
I hope you see this, that the world can’t give you life. It’s not full, and pride will cease. Watch it get squashed when the end-times come, the final days the world will see. I will come with a sword, and few will recognize that I am the one who died for their sins, and be thankful, because then it will be too late.
Now is the day of salvation. Now is the time to get ready, full of Me.
Strengthen your loins. Make haste to obey. Fill yourselves with righteousness for all to see. Then they will be glad, because you obeyed. Many will follow when the time is right.
Now many are weary. They mistrust. They judge without love. They need to respect My opinion. Then they can relax, once they are in Me — anger no more. Rebellion will cease.
A new way has come, leading many into victory, where they can stay in Me and never get out. We can be one. Many will see it and be glad—for you obeyed.
Sincerely,
Jeff Fenske
Michael Boyle
Thank you for this. I think you got it spot-on.
John Lumley
“It is finish” is good news to my soul.
Thank you Jesus for erasing my sins.
🙂
Jeff Fenske
John,
“It is finished” means that Jesus’ work was finished. But we must do our part of the new covenant in order to qualify for what He did for everyone in the whole world.
It doesn’t just happen by baptism and confirmation, if you’re a Lutheran, as I once was.
These are just a few of the many scriptures that Luther and many theologians overlook, taken from my article: Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way.
If we don’t overcome, our names will be blotted out from the Book of Life:
Mat. 7:21
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Rev. 3:1-5
Gal. 5:13-6:10
We’ve only been taught part of the Gospel.
Jeff
brad
How wonderful that I should stumble upon this website. Today at morning Mass, the readings were from Revelation.
Rv 2:1-5
“I know your works, your labor, and your endurance,
and that you cannot tolerate the wicked;
you have tested those who call themselves Apostles but are not,
and discovered that they are impostors.
Moreover, you have endurance and have suffered for my name,
and you have not grown weary.
Yet I hold this against you:
you have lost the love you had at first.
Realize how far you have fallen.
Repent, and do the works you did at first.
Otherwise, I will come to you
and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.”’”
I think this reading reflects what is written on this web page. Christ loves us and forgives our sins, but will hold it against us when we have fallen deeply into sin and will chastise us, unless we repent. We can’t expect to waltz through life, sinning grievously against our neighbor and God without some sort of chastisement. We can’t be true followers of Christ if we curse and hate our neighbors. It sounds like Luther needed to do some heavy repenting to join Christ in Heaven.
I was brought up as a Lutheran, and converted to Catholicism much later in my life. Over the years I learned more and more about the Catholic church, and realized that it is truly the universal church. For decades it was difficult for me to believe that there is a purgatory, but now see it as a place of purification, in preparation to our entrance into heaven. I pray that those who have fallen from the faith, protestant or Catholic will be given a chance to repent in purgatory, and enter heaven. I pray we shall all attempt to give up our sinfulness, and lead holy lives. I hope Luther has been forgiven, has repented and resides with Christ too. That is the beauty of the Catholic Sacrament of Reconciliation. We humbly present ourselves before Christ and beg for forgiveness for our sins, and walk away cleansed. It prepares us for receiving Christ body and blood in the Eucharist, and for death, whenever it comes.
It breaks my heart to hear that certain protestants think of the Catholic Church as the Anti-Christ. How could they believe that people who give their hearts and soul to Christ Jesus could be followers of Satan? The Mass is directly derived from Scripture. I wish those who are so deceived, would read Scott Hahn’s book, “Rome Sweet Home” and I think they might see the light.
Brad
Jeff Fenske
Brad,
I’m glad you found my site too. I was also raised Lutheran, but then I read the Bible for myself, seeing something very much different.
I then tried to find a church that lined up the closest to what I read in the Bible.
I think you will find this site as my endeavor to help the real thing to again happen — what they had in Acts and what Jesus prayed that we would be — ONE with each other in Him! (John 17)
My friend, Dave Anders, has also gone in your direction. I think you will find this post My friend, David Anders on Catholic TV and the comments below interesting, as well as maybe my other The Catholic Deception posts.
This is pretty serious. Where we and others spend all of eternity is at stake!
God bless!
Jeff Fenske
post-tribber
Martin Luther was a warped person.
The Bible says you can’t put a new patch on an old wineskin. You can’t reform the Catholic church.
What you do is, you come out and you start over new. You get the Bible and you start new. You don’t react to the old and build your doctrines on what was wrong with the old, but what is right with the new.
I am one who believes in starting new with the Bible, all of us. 99.9 of the churches are full of heresies. Full of them. Loaded down with them. Augustine’s heresies are all through what passes for Christendom.
We need to go back to the Bible, especially the words in red that Jesus spoke when he walked among us, the words the churches run away from, and don’t even go into the gospels except for John 3:16 and to read the account of Jesus’ birth and death at Christmas and Easter, and to teach a few select parables to the children in Sunday School (like the good shepherd going to find his lost sheep and the prodigal son and the missing coin). We are taught the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness and things about his life. But his teachings, all those teachings, those plain teachings about Heaven and Hell, what we must do to go to Heaven and what we must do to avoid Hell– those teachings are IGNORED. We are told these were said “in code” to “the Jews” — and are “not for us.”
We need to forget everything and go read those words Jesus said and ponder them. Otherwise, most of us are going to go to Hell.
David Berthold
As a Lutheran, I always felt uncomfortable about this statement and believe Martin Luther missed the target completely. At best he points the way. Sin may not have consequences to God since Christ fulfilled His will, but sin has real consequences to me.
Yet sin boldly that grace may abound provokes passion that touches your very soul. It’s inspirational. Everyone who is moved by this statement is impelled to dig deeper for what Easter means. This leads to my question. To illustrate the question, I must tell a story which my pastor tells and which you may have already heard.
Quoth my pastor: “Once there was an old and wise king, who had an only son. One day the king told his son, ‘I want you to fetch the water for my household because I want you to know humility and what it means to be the least in my kingdom.’ Being a good son the young prince decided to obey his father whole heartedly, so he carried his yoke down the long dusty path that led to the cistern where the king’s water was stored. Many vessels were there. Some were beautifully ornate and others ordinary. The young prince chose a practical, yet ornate, vessel for the left side of the yoke, but for the right side he chose a vessel which had a crack halfway up its side. As the young prince carried the water daily along the path to his father’s house, beautiful flowers began to emerge along the right side of the path while the left side remained bare. One day the cracked pot said, ‘Forgive me master for I only carry half the water,’ but the good prince replied, ‘Good and faithful servant have you not seen the beautiful flowers along the same side of the path that you are carried while the other side remains bare. It’s through your brokenness that you have watered these flowers and brought glory to my father’s house.’ After three years the king said to his son, ‘You have obeyed the Spirit of what I asked you to do and brought glory to your father’s house. Come and sit at my right hand.”
Is the genius of the resurrection mastermind the same as the story of the good prince, who restores the relationship between the cracked pot and its king by the very brokenness that ruined it?
awc
I am amazed that people of organized faith can focus on such trivial things such vain things…
from observation, we live in a universe that is 14 billion years old we exist at no special point in time, amoung some 16 billion (known) galaxies with about 300 billion stars which (is homogeneous and isotropic) we are in no special place, from observation
That just because you are occupying this place and this time that the events occuring around us now are therefore, somehow significant…
you are expressing the highest levels of vainity
A.T
awc this statement of yours ” we live in a universe that is 14 billion years old ” amounts to arrogance and idiocy by scientists who have been proven wrong time and time again. I for one wont trust my future to those who “know everything” but cant cure even the common cold, and change their theories every year.
At every turn science has tried to disprove the Holy Scripture however it is science which has been proven wrong, and just because people dont want to acknowledge the Creator doesnt mean he doesnt exist. Please let me know which of your scientists were there when the universe was created to place a date on it!
Searching for truth is not vanity, especially in this case – it is life.
If i have misunderstood your quotations excuse me, but if you stand against God then my words stand true. Tell Him he doesnt exist when you meet Him.
you expressing the highest levels of ignorance.
regarding martin luther, Know this “no lie is of the truth” at the end of the day his doctrine was lies, thats what it all boils down to. A little truth and many lies sends many people to hell . the true church is a collection of those across all God’s earth who practice truth ( you WILL know them by their deeds ) and love Jesus, accepting Him as their Saviour.
May God bless those who accept Him in truth.
The fool has said in his heart, “there is no God”
ezra
I laugh at you bone-heads, you once-virgin-Lutherans who finally were wedded to Christ. PTL, you discovered the real Jesus! Do us a favor: don’t ever reference your Lutheranism, for you do not have a clue as to who or what Luther taught or believed. Pharisees!
Luther never did believe “once saved, always saved.” Everybody else understands this, except you. Luther believed in God’s grace, his ability to be greater than any human’s sin. That’s all. And you purposely misconstrue his words and intents. You pretend to be superior to him.
News Flash: You are hardly a shadow of his big toe. You are so full of yourselves. Should you happen to arrive in heaven, despite your ego and only because of God’s grace, you will apologize to the great saint who went before you. It won’t be a matter of anyone forcing you; grace has a way of reducing sectarianism to genuine humility. : )
Jeff Fenske
Okay, it’s time I say something.
Ezra, when you say: I laugh at you bone-heads, you may want to consider the words of the One who will judge yo someday. Jesus in Matthew 5:
21 “You have heard that it was said to the ancient ones, ‘You shall not murder;’ and ‘Whoever shall murder shall be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I tell you, that everyone who is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment; and whoever shall say to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council; and whoever shall say, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of the fire of Gehenna.
And what Luther said here and elsewhere is so clear, how could anyone say otherwise, especially after reading this post, unless:
2 Peter 3: BEWARE, in the LAST DAYS People Will Be WILLINGLY IGNORANT
If anyone wants to know the truth about Luther, I currently have 18 posts in the Luther Didn’t Get It category, in the Category pull-down menu near the top of the right-hand column.
jeff
Euripides MacGuillicuddy
Wow. We are a dense and self-righteous people (myself included). Please, stop arguing the law. No one can be saved by observing the law. No one ever could. Jesus had to come to fulfill the law. He did. It is finished.
We are going to continue to sin in this life. To think that you are not, or that you are going to be able to be holy in the sense that you understand holy means that you are still trying to have a righteousness of your own. It’s all Christ or it’s all you, which do you prefer? Make your choice today, today is the day of salvation!
All of Jesus’ hard sayings, especially the Sermon on the Mount, weren’t they to warn us that the Father’s Righteousness far surpasses the Torah? The Law was to point us to our need…Jesus. Jesus was telling us,if you thought before, that you could have a righeousness of your own, based on keeping the law, you’re obviously not getting it. Listen, the righteousness that God requires is even above that which you have believed before. The apostles got it. “How can any of us be saved!?!?” Did Jesus ever tell them stop sinning…make yourself more holy?
You know the truth, start believing it and start loving the Christ who gave you His Righteousness. Your account with God is full…there is no more righteousness that you can bring to the account…it’s full. Nothing can diminish it.
Jesus came into the world to save SINNERS, of whom I am second to Paul the apostle (yes, I have some pride).
If after coming to the knowledge of the truth, how do you think that you can continue on in it, by doing good works to maintain yourself in it? You can’t, you will sin…you ARE sinning thinking that you can earn anything or maintain the work that he has done? We ARE poor wretched sinners who still think we can commend ourselves to God somehow. How silly.
Jeff Fenske
“It’s all Christ or it’s all you.” Says who?
Paul said:
Romans 8:1-19
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who don’t walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the law couldn’t do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God did, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh; 4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace….
12 So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if you live after the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are children of God. 15 For you didn’t receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption, by whom we cry, “Abbaa! Father!”
16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God; 17 and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if indeed we suffer with him, that we may also be glorified with him. 18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which will be revealed toward us. 19 For the creation waits with eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed.
It’s all laid out in Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way | Who are the Children of God?, which the above text was taken from.
You also mentioned the Sermon on the Mount, which Luther rejected as applying to us.
Again, says who? It absolutely applies to us. Jesus was bringing in the new covenant, saying how it was in the old, and now how it is in the new, now that we have the Holy Spirit indwelling us (those who are born-again, not just infant baptized and then ‘confirming’ that which wasn’t valid in the first place).
Baruch: “Not only is DECEPTION of the church possible, it WAS PROPHESIED TO HAPPEN!” — Jesus said “IN THE LAST DAYS THE MAJORITY WILL BE DECEIVED, take heed that it doesn’t happen to you” — “FALSE TEACHERS are actually SPEAKING SPELLS with the words of their FALSE DOCTRINES!”
This isn’t “silly.” It’s deadly serious.
jeff
Michael Boyle
Amen.
Anonymous
Definitely couldn’t follow your logic at all.
Jeff Fenske
Why do you think that is?
Jim Schackel
The difference between Calvin and Luther is that Calvin believed in pure logic while Luther believed in paradox as far as the Christian faith was concerned. One of his major teachings is Simul justus et peccator Man is “At the same time righteous and a sinner” Sin boldly fits that aspect Luther. Like Jesus Himself, Luther often used hyperbole to make a point. While I can’t think of his name an American pastor has said “no sin of mine could make God love me less and no good action on my part could make God love me more.” Also hyperbole, perhaps, but it lets God be God. There are other paradoxes in Luther’s theology. You can’t take him to court over every word he ever said.
Truth Seeker
It shouldn’t be a mystery as to how God determines the state of man’s condition. The Word is clear. It really makes no difference who’s opinions are stated. All of man’s attempts to somehow determine how God will deal with sin on the day of judgement are in vain if the warnings of the New Testament are not heeded. If people say that they are truly born of the Spirit of God there shouldn’t be division in the church regarding how we need to live. There are repeated chapters and verses to demonstrate that God has established standards that we need to live by.
Amos 7:7-9 demonstrates this to Israel and should also be heeded by those who say they follow Jesus Christ.
7 Thus he shewed me: and, behold, the LORD stood upon a wall made by a plumbline, with a plumbline in his hand.
8 And the LORD said unto me, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A plumbline. Then said the LORD, Behold, I will set a plumbline in the
midst of my people Israel: I will not again pass by them any more:
9 And the high places of Isaac shall be desolate, and the sanctuaries of Israel shall be laid waste; and I will rise against the house of Jeroboam with the sword.
Notice I said follow. The difference between believers and followers is allegiance to God’s precepts. The idea that God’s gift of salvation is absolutely unconditional in the sense the we have no obligation to God’s standard of righteousness is pure delusion.
2Thessalonians 2:7-12 says:
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deception of wickedness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
If Satan who was created as a perfect being was capable of banishment from Heaven, who should have any reason to believe that God, who is holy god, would allow anyone in rebellion to his commands to enter heaven.
Anyone who is a professed “Born Again Christian” is called by the transforming power of the Holy Spirit to manifest their faith through works.
James 2:14-26 says clearly:
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Most people don’t read the Bible much less study it in depth. No wonder there are so many opinions that don’t agree. The secret to finding the truth is holding true to the plumbline; The Word of God.
Ephesians 5:1-17 demonstrates the idea of how we should live.
1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
Even as a professed Christian I used to practice sin because of the strong delusion wrought about by the false theologies practiced in nearly all denominations. It wasn’t until I asked God if I was being deceived that he revealed his truth to me. The goodness of God’s Word is everlasting and that which proceeds from his hand does not come out twisted. Through honest personal examination and prayer I found that many of the things I wasn’t able to see in His Word was spiritual blindness brought about by false teaching. Just refer to the book of Acts in chapter 9 and examine that Paul also experienced healing from spiritual blindness and his life was transformed when the scales were removed from his spiritual eyes.
A thorough study of Colossians 2 will reveal much of what is false in the in the world. Colossians 2:1-12 says:
1 For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;
2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
4 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.
5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.
6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 Rooted and built up in him, and established in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead;
If you look at scripture from God’s perspective there is only one doctrine that believers should follow. His.
1 Timothy 4:16 states:
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
If the doctrine is straight the rest of the church will be straight.
Just a thought.
Bless you in the name of Jesus Christ.
Truth Seeker
Deb
This is my only explanation I have for how the Holy Spirit is working in me. You will understand what I mean after you read my story below.
John 7:38: He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living waters.
MY STORY:
24 years ago when my son was 7 years, I was called into his school and told they believed he was sexually molested and he portrayed all of the signs of a sexually abused child. I myself had been aware of how he was acting and saying things I did not think normal but at 28 years old honestly I was naïve about thinking adults doing things to children. I could not fathom who did it but had one suspicion at that time and it was his stepfather whom I was married to at the time. He was a little unusual and I had begun to think he had homosexual tendencies (although this does not make one a child molester). I just could not imagine who did anything to my son. He never went to babysitters as I never went “out” so he was always with me, his stepfather and of course his daily sitter while we worked that had kept him from age 2 to age 7 when I found out. His sitter he had for all those years was my neighbor and she was also my Sunday school teacher and I gave my life to the Lord in her home. Her husband was church treasurer and sometimes helped with the daycare as he seemed to always be in between jobs. I actually trusted them more than my own family. Well…needless to say, my son’s behavior got so out of control he had to be institutionalized for 3 months at Vanderbilt Children’s Psychiatric Hospital in Nashville. They of course did all the normal “play therapy” but to no avail. In the meantime my husband and I separated and my son and I moved to an apartment. His behavior got worse…he began to also curse the name of Jesus. I had him prayed for, prayed over and everything you can imagine. Once a person came to my apartment and told me that there was a demon of homosexuality after my son. I was not aware back then that people really could discern spirits but I never doubted what he told me. My husband and I did get back together and we moved back home but divorced a year later. At that time, my son at 9 years old tried to commit suicide by taking an overdose of the medication he was on. He was again put in an institution and stayed in patient for 3 more months and then went in the day for 6 more months to their day program. They abused him physically I found out and of course I immediately took him out of the program. During this time they tried to get him to talk about his abuse and he adamantly refused. Period. During this last hospital stay, some other children that were 4 years of age…2 others to be exact, went home from the same day care my son went to all those years and told things that had been done to them that were sexually inappropriate to say the least. We ALL went to the same church. We ALL trusted this daycare provider of course as they were leaders in our church. I was shocked to say the least. I confronted them and asked the wife could her husband possibly have been the one to do something to my child as she had shared with me during our friendship that he had been sexually abused by his father when he was growing up. I was devastated and told them I needed answers. Well…she hung up on me as I had called her on the phone and we NEVER spoke again. They changed churches and I was going through so much trying to get my son help and he never would tell who did what to him so I had no legal recourse against them. He did tell me the day before this suicide attempt at 9 years old that he had to give an adult a “blow job” and adamantly refused to tell me who. He then tried to kill himself by taking an overdose. They eventually closed down their daycare I had heard and that was like I said 24 years ago. My son tried to commit suicide again at 14 and again at 21 years of age. To say the least I have struggled to keep my faith that God would one day take care of this but I NEVER gave up. I kept the faith of a mustard seed most days and some days occasionally a mountain although it was hard.
Fast forward to Good Friday of 2011. On this day my son beat his 6 year old little boy and left many many marks on his entire back. (He had rarely ever spanked him though before this). I was devastated for the poor child and knew the anger from my son’s sexual abuse was coming to a head. Up till this time my son had become a drug addict, alcoholic and verbally and physically abused his wife. He threatened to burn the house down with her in it on numerous occasions. I did what I should have done and that was I called the Department of Human Services. Life has not been the same since. I was so devastated I told God that 24 years had passed and I needed to know who did what to my son as it was literally killing us all. My son over all these last years’ refused to talk about any of it much less admit he had a problem. I got on my knees and told the Lord that I would seek Him like I had never in my life and would study His word for the truth as I said in my spirit I sensed he was returning soon and I was afraid that my son would to go hell since he cursed the name of Jesus. He used to tell me that there was not a God or all that happened to him surely could not have happened. The Lord told me in my spirit “seek My face and I will fix your problems”…so I got on the internet and got my bible and I typed in the words” God I want to know the truth” and started studying. I told him I needed the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
As I studied of course my main interest/focus was on the book of Revelation/Daniel and every scripture involved it led me to. I began to read and read and read and read. For hours every night…doing exactly what I told the Lord I would do and He said He would fix my problems. Well…as I began to read different interpretations of scripture I began to get confused on “who” had it right so I just kept studying. God says to ask the Holy Spirit to teach us and even to discern the truth if what pastors teach us as well is his truth. We ARE NOT TO TAKE YOUR WORD OR ANYONE ELSES WORD…we are to study ourselves. About 4-5 weeks into my diligent seeking, I was so confused one day and in my mind thought “is it this way or is it this way”…and as I would think of each direction I started feeling little flutters in my belly. At first I was like…”what is that”…is that you God? Well…I kept studying, seeking, praying and repenting of my sins (God was really cleansing my soul). As I studied over the next week or so He would move in my belly directing me which way to go as far as the last week of Daniel. As you know there are many views out there…and about pre trib, post trib, etc. After a few weeks of this I was truly amazed and still not quite sure what was happening. I went for a ride with my husband one day although I told him I really want to sit at my desk and study and as we were riding I was thinking about everything I had read and to myself asking…ok, is it this way or that way…and God started moving in my belly answering me when I was thinking in the direction He wanted me to go/study. I chuckled to myself and thought to God…Lord, Jack (my husband) will think I am nuts when I tell him you are moving in my belly…and I literally FELT the Lord chuckle back!
Ok, so over all of last summer I literally repented of sins, ask God’s forgiveness, rejoiced in all that He was doing. As I went through this I would be just thinking certain thoughts in my mind on who did what to my son many years ago and realized that the Lord was ready to give me the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth just as I had prayed for. He revealed as I asked questions by literally moving in my belly (to yes and no answers) that my son was abused by his Stepfather AND the babysitters husband. He revealed to me my father was sexually abused (in comes generational sins). I too had done things with my brother at a very young age from about 5-10 years old that were not of God and only of satan and although I had gone to my brother about 5 years ago and talked to him about my memories and had done a lot of healing from this already ….it was one more generation of perversion satan had managed to get his foot in the door…and carried the sexual sin another generation with my son. I did know that since I had gone to my brother that I had broken the chain and prayed the Lord would help me break it with my son and what happened to him.
My current husband had some issues that had affected our marriage and had for about 10 years as well but denied it. Well…the Lord revealed to me all that was taking place with him. He actually told me to tell my husband that what he was doing was “detestable” to him and he needed to denounce it. I went to him and gave him the message from the Lord and he of course denied it. I kept studying, seeking, praying and God kept revealing things to me. He revealed to me in advance when my husband would get phone calls from 2 specific people that they were involved in the same sin…when the phone would ring He would literally move in my belly and I would ask..Lord do they have the same problem…and He moved and moved (weird but true) I kept seeking. He told me again a few weeks later to tell my husband what he was doing was “detestable” and to denounce it. I told him again. He again tried to deny it. I said…I am telling you what God told me to tell you…Well, things started getting evil in my house. Literally one night the Holy Spirit vibrated my stomach so hard it felt like a chainsaw inside! LOLOL!! Again, weird but true, warning me of the evil of something going on with my husband. I prayed for safety, and as I would look in my husband eyes they looked weird, different and evil. That was how I can explain it. Also, I told my son what the Lord revealed to me about his father molesting him. He did not deny or admit it. He said “I don’t understand how God can tell you in your belly”…and I am going to leave the past in the past….”Dad has enough problems with his health right now”…and I don’t remember much but I am moving forward. I told him, David you cannot move forward unless you deal with this. Jesus can help you if you will let him. Now…understand after I called the dept. of human services on him for beating his child he told me I was right, he was wrong and he was going to do everything in his life differently. Well…as I prayed and sought the Lord as I promised, God worked on his end of the deal as I began to sense a change in my sons spirit like you would not believe even before I told him about knowing his father did this. Now…my daughter- in-law thought I had gone off the deep end. I had told her that I felt like shooting my son’s father and she took it literal and told my son…Your mom is going to shoot your dad…they called and told him what was going on. He called me and said “so God told you I molested David”…and I said YEP, he did. He started crying and all he could say was “what about all the good things I did for him”…I told him he needed to repent of what he did to David to God and to his own son for what he did. He was crying so hard…then he hung up on me. That was last September. Now, what this truth the Lord has shown me did was to let my son know…”yes, there is a God” as he did not believe it or the evil/perversion surely would not have happened to him…therefore it was keeping him from believing in Jesus Christ…just what satan would have wanted and David would never give his life to the Lord. So, since my son knew he had never told a sole that his father had molested him, he had to know that the Lord is truly real! Jesus Christ won this battle…
Then….God said it was time to separate from my husband…the evil was getting worse and I could sense danger (although he was far from a dangerous person).I left him. He begged me not to but I did. The day after I left he got on his knees and prayed for me to come back. He realized after a day that he was praying for the wrong thing and the next day he got on his knees and prayed for God to cleanse him of this sin in his life ( the sin he adamantly denied to me) and to forgive him. Well…he told me the Holy Spirit literally vibrated his entire body from top to bottom and he felt the demons leave him. I then understood the “look” in his eyes and the evil presence I felt and that God warned me of the last few weeks I was home. We began Christian counseling and we have actually now reconciled and I moved home after a 6 month separation.
But…these months I kept praying, studying, seeking just like I promised God. Never gave up! And…He started showing me many more truths than I ever could imagine. He moves in my belly and lets me know when I am in the presence of evil spirits….in public places, when my husband and I are around each other and they are trying to attack him, he has a son that is very far from God and every time I am around him God warns me of the evil, He warned me when my car was getting ready to break down, He warned/warns me when I make a wrong turn on the highway ( sometimes it takes me a few minutes to realize why He is moving In my stomach but I eventually do). He lets me know when I have taken my grandson to a movie the songs they play that are not of God. At the skating rink when I take my grandson, He tells me when a song is playing that He does not approve of…all by moving in my stomach. The list goes on and on. He also though still continues to move in my belly when I am studying truths. (the feelings/movements are different for evil vs good/truth).
Well…this all lead up to my contemplating that I did not think that satan would want us to know about when the covenant that most people think has to happen still was signed and God gave me this dream:
The Lord woke me in the middle of the night on March 5th as I was dreaming about the 70th week of Daniel. When I woke, I immediately remembered that God told me we are IN THE FINAL YEARS NOW…to not be looking for any covenant. I ask him “Lord did you wake me so I would remember this dream and he moved in my stomach to FIRMLY and positively tell me YES I DID. I then went back to sleep and dreamed the Lord telling me that I needed to be looking for the abomination of desolation next. He then woke me VERY FIRMLY again by moving in my stomach and I asked him again “Lord did you wake me again so I would remember this dream” and in no uncertain terms he said by moving and moving in me YES I DID. The next morning I woke and prayed and sought the Lord and in amazement asked him to please clarify that it was him waking me and telling me what he did and he absolutely moved in me like he does when he wants to GET MY ATTENTION. Yes, I did wake you and this is what I wanted you to remember.
So..I am shouting the news. Our Lords return is soon
I feel so grateful for the truths He has shown me. I am cleansed from the inside out and feel blessed to be able to worship Him so freely. I guess when I asked for the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth he honored my request as I honored my commitment to Him by diligently seeking Him as I promised. As I said, some of the truths are personal and some are not. I believe that the Lord gave me the truths about these final days because I am bold enough to speak it unlike most pastors of today as most are not even studying or paying attention that we are living in the last days as we know it.
In all my studying, I also learned what scripture meant when God says the following:
Matthew 7:13-14: Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: because strait is the gate and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Matthew 721-23: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful WORKS? And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
John 14:15: If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter that he may abide with you for ever.
I believe he means all 10 commandments.
John 14:21: He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
I realized I was NOT GOING THROUGH THOSE GATES…Although I “believed” in Jesus Christ..I realized that even satan “believed” in Jesus. The Lord expects it to be a much deeper relationship than just believing. He says ….keep my commandments. I was not doing that and the Holy Spirit speaks to my heart daily…on keeping all of Gods ten commandments.
I was in the church specifically talks about in:
Revelation 3:14 “The lukewarm church”
These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy WORKS, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will SPUE THEE OUT OF MY MOUTH. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing: and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked. I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich, and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eye salve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
So…I can say today, I know without a shadow of doubt, I will “sup” with the Lord. He is the Lord of my life, my Master, my Redeemer, my Friend, my Counselor, my ALL. Up until one year ago, although I “believed” in Jesus I would have been spued out of his mouth.
Now, it seems to me this will be happening soon as family is already turning against family. I have been shunned by many of my family members since I have told them this story… 4 of my siblings, my daughter in law and some nieces. They literally have told me I am satan.
Matthew 10:21-22: And the brother shall deliver up brother to death, and the father the child: and the children rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my names sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
I will endure to the end. No words man can say against me (even saying I am satan or filled with satan) will ever make me turn my back on Jesus Christ. I choose Jesus. To the end.
James 1:2-4 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
James 1:12: Blesses is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to then that love him.
Only in Jesus Christ name I write this…
Debbie
Smashing Idols
We are not saved because we are worthy, but because God loves us anyway.” rick roberts
MOST DENOMINATIONS, HAVING ACCEPTED THE LIES OF ORIGINAL SIN AND ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED, HAVE LOST THE BIBLICAL CONCEPT OF WORTHINESS THROUGH FAITHFUL HOLINESS, AND HAVE ADOPTED A FALSE CONCEPT OF GRACE , WHICH IS EVEN WORSE THAN A MERE licence to sin , BUT WHICH GOES SO FAR AS TO RIDICULE AND CONDEMN ANYONE WHO ATTEMPTS TO obey the gospel AS AN UNBELIEVER WHO DOESN’T TRUST IN JESUS for salvation. This is GROSS apostasy.
Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Eze 13:22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life
THE BIBLE TEACHES THE NECESSITY OF WORTHINESS:
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Luk_21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Luk 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
Luk 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
Mat_10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Mat_10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Luk_3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Heb_10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Mat_22:8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
Luk 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
Rom_1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Rev_16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
Eph_4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
Col_1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
1Th_2:12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
2Th_1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
Rev_3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
Jeff Fenske
Thanks for sharing! I appreciate the worthiness theme, and turned part of this into a post: http://onecanhappen.com/2012/11/11/the-bible-teaches-the-necessity-of-worthiness
Jeff : )
Michael Boyle
What Luther meant was that none of us is perfect. If we try to be, we become self-righteous and arrogant and begin forgetting past sins. At least, for some people. I can relate. For Luther, the devil was always reminding him of his sins to the point of him falling into severe depression. True, these words may sound rash and unChristian, but Romans 8 does affirm that NOTHING can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. I am a terrible sinner and often do fall into the category of self-righteousness and thinking I’m not bad enough for hell. Then, whenever I do sin, I feel horrendous for having done so, to the point of depression and physical sickness and feeling like there’s no hope. The devil has a field day with guys like me. He keeps reminding me I’m not worthy of heaven and suggesting things like “Oh, well, you were doing so well all last month, and now THIS? That was a horrendous sin, and God us angry with you for not reading your Bible as long today as you did last week.” That kind of thing. I think what Luther is getting at is that we’re not perfect, so don’t try to be. The devil knows how to rip us apart. Luther also has a quote something to the effect of, “When the devil harasses you, go out drinking with a group of your friends. Laugh more, and even sin a little bit to show that devil that the One who is protecting you and whose grace is sufficient for all of your sins is far more powerful than him.” Watch the movie “Luther” with Joseph Fiennes and I think you’ll have a little bit better understanding. Romans also tells us that where sin abounded, grace abounded THE MORE. I think Luther’s point is to shut the devil up by sinning when the devil is saying “there is no forgiveness” to prove that Jesus’ blood “cleanses us from all sin.” (I John 1:7)
Jeff Fenske
Michael,
Actually, I didn’t like the movie “Luther” with Joseph Fiennes.
I was just discussed Paul’s “nothing can separate us from the Love of God” statement in Romans 8 with a friend. The key is who is ‘us?’ We better be ‘us’ or else!
I’ll share here what I wrote, bolding key parts to make it easier to read.
I said:
Paul continues to explain who goes to heaven in the middle of Romans 8, as well as in Romans 11, but pastors are leading the church astray by focusing instead on Romans 8:1a and the last part of the chapter which says nothing can separate us from the love of Christ; though, Paul was referring to those who are truly in Christ Jesus according to what he had previously said in chapter 8.”
And you respond to this with this interesting idea:
Not sure I agree with you here either. Pastors may indeed be leading us astray but the idea that it’s incorrect to assume that nothing can separate us from the love of Christ? Nothing can. And that goes for both Christian and non christian alike. Jew and Gentile. Christ loves us all. This does not infer specifically whether that means they will go to heaven or not…and again, perhaps pastors abuse this verse as you say…that I do not know…but looking at the verse on it’s own…I highly agree with it. Nothing can separate us from Christ and I am not so sure that Paul was only referring to those who are “truly” in Christ. For it clearly obvious that Christ has expressed love for both Saved and unsaved time and time again.
There is no doubt that he was writing to “those who are called to be saints in Rome. Romans 1:
Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, set apart for the Good News of God, 2 which he promised before through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning his Son, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, 4 who was declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5 through whom we received grace and apostleship, for obedience of faith among all the nations, for his name’s sake; 6 among whom you are also called to belong to Jesus Christ; 7 to all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints…
And a careful reading of Romans 8 in a real Bible (not the NIV) shows that he was addressing those who were abiding in Christ, because they walk according to the Spirit not according to the flesh — and because they would suffer with Christ so therefore they could reign with Him and be His children. He talks about the suffering thing at the end of Romans 8 too.
I believe Paul is talking about the tangible love that starts now and will be fully realized once we’re with Him in heaven.
This is the opposite of being cut off, due to willful sin, described in Hebrews 10:
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which will devour the adversaries. 28 A man who disregards Moses’ law dies without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will he be judged worthy of, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant WITH WHICH HE WAS SANCTIFIED an unholy thing, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance belongs to me,” says the Lord, “I will repay.” Again, “The Lord will judge HIS PEOPLE.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
32 But remember the former days, in which, after you were enlightened, you endured a great struggle with sufferings; 33 partly, being exposed to both reproaches and oppressions; and partly, becoming partakers with those who were treated so. 34 For you both had compassion on me in my chains, and joyfully accepted the plundering of your possessions, knowing that you have for yourselves a better possession and an enduring one in the heavens. 35 Therefore don’t throw away your boldness, which has a great reward. 36 For you need endurance so that, having done the will of God, you may receive the promise.
37 “In a very little while, he who comes will come, and will not wait.
38 But the righteous will live by faith [Luther’s theme song from Romans 1, stated quite differently here – jeff]. If he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.”
39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the saving of the soul.
To me, this is being cut off from the love of God — separated from His love — to instead experience God’s wrath and even vengeance — regardless of how politically incorrect this truth is among the grace changers [which Jude mentions – jeff].
Paul was saying in Romans 8 that no matter what we go through on earth — even if we get physically tortured for Christ (because we wouldn’t compromise) — that God’s love will always be with us.
It’s interesting to see historically how the Holy Spirit sometimes rescued people supernaturally from being physically tortured, but it seems that more often the Christians would get tortured, but the Holy Spirit would so fully fill the Christians with His Spirit that they’d be on cloud 9 through the experience.
Fox’s Book of Martyrs has many such accounts. The story of Richard Wurmbrand, called “Tortured for Christ” is a great example. Richard forgave them just like Jesus and Stephen did.
Stephen probably died on Cloud 9 too, being filled with the Holy Spirit radically as they stoned him to death.
2 Corinthians 1 describes the process of how when the sufferings of Christ flow into our lives His comfort flows.”
And His comfort ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whom shall we fear? We shouldn’t fear what we’ll have to go through, if we will have to…. Instead, we should make sure we’re right with God and people 100%, so if we get tortured for Christ we will know for sure that Christ’s comfort will flow so greatly that we will never be tempted above that which we can bear.
Many early Christians looked forward to suffering for Christ if that would glorify Him.
I’m personally not wanting to suffer, but I’m NOT going to compromise no matter what, including taking the ‘mark.’ We all need to set our minds to obey God no matter what now comes down.
I’ve been trying to do my best to help people see what’s coming, so ‘ONE’ could happen, and we could postpone the end of America — which I think will be Dumitru Duduman’s and others visions of us getting invaded by Russia and China in the not too distant future (maybe 10 years away). And before that happens, Dumitru prophecies civil unrest within America.
http://onecanhappen.com/2012/07/12/dumitru-duduman-the-russian-invasion-of-america
ISRAEL
” And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law, for sin is the transgression of the law”
1 John 3 v 3-4.