12 Reasons NOT To Expect a PRE-Trib Rapture

Those who don’t believe in the pretrib or the rapture first needs to learn how to use exegesis which is the original meaning of what the author’s intentions in each book of the Bible. Second you need to learn hermeneutics which is the interpretation of the Biblical scriptures in today’s time. I humbly state to quit listening to others and do your own research.

I did an in depth study to find what Scriptural evidence there is to support a pre-trib, a mid-trib, or a pre-wrath rapture, and found that all Biblical evidence points to there being only a post-trib. Read about it here: http://justinlessard.wordpress.com/2009/05/06/will-there-be-a-rapture/
Please also share your comments. Thanks and God bless!

Brethren C.I.Scofield is really the one who infected Christianity with his Jewish Fables that comes from the satanic Talmud.Jews control just about everything in America especially the Federal Reserve from whence comes our Federal Reserve notes we the people work for then pay the Jews interest on the money we make through income taxes.
Dispensationalism as taught by every major denomination on so-called Christian tv only prospers because its the doctrines that will bring in the new world order under the AntiChrist while the deceived elect are waiting to be rescued from the coming tribulation which they will not be prepared for because they believed the lie of it that will damn billions to hell because they refused the truth {See 2nd Thess chapter 2 v 9-12}
If something is not true its a lie and where will those people go who use the Bible to teach things it dont?They are without the tree of life {Rev 22:14-15}
It is more serious than just minor dis-agreements over doctrine.
Read this about Mr C.I.Scofield whom`s system most preachers teach while the lost sheep believe.It is an eternal mistake to accept and follow these NWO Talmudic heresies.
Read this Schocker.
We now enter the phase of the Illuminati and the Great Awakening,
Cyrus Scofield and the subversion of modern Christianity
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“And no marvel for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works” — Rabbi Saul of Tarsus – 1 Corinthians 11:14-15.
The key to understanding this is in the Hebrew Prophecies themselves. It is made absolutely clear that the Jews are first to achieve dominion over the nations of the earth, and then Zion will be proclaimed over the whole.
“And the Lord will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and even upon her assemblies, a cloud of smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defense.” — Isaiah 4:5, King James Version
A defense against what? If this is to be the kingdom of Christ Jesus, what need for a defense, Christian? And yet you teach that Zion is Jesus’ earthly kingdom because this is what your church elders had been taught by Cyrus Scofield, editor of your Bible concordance. He went to great efforts to convince you that Isaiah and Micah’s “mountain of the Lord’s house” is supposed to mean the millennial kingdom of Jesus Christ. That is a lie; his argument is a fraud, yet you can’t see it.
Jesus’ kingdom needs no pillar of fire and smoke to protect it. The word “Zion”, in Hebrew, means “Sepulchre”. Solomon’s Temple was built on Mount Moriah, not on Mount Zion. Mount Zion lies to the south of the Old City, separated by a narrow valley, and to the southwest of the Mount of Olives. Mount Zion is also known as Golgotha – the “Hill of Skulls” – or Calvary.
Zion and Calvary are one and the same. Jesus was crucified on Zion! The Christian confusing of Zion with the Rebuilding of the Second Temple is a mistake, the result of bad geography and/or a metaphorically bizarre Kabbalistic joke.
Is the Sepulchre to be the place of Redemption? [Freemasonry! ]
Was Jesus not crucified on the same spot where Abraham had built an altar to sacrifice his son, Isaac? What is the relationship between Jesus and Zion?
Who taught us to use that word?
Can you see how we have been deceived by our own Christian churches, taught to worship our doom in the Antichrist?
The text of Isaiah 2:1 clearly states “The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.” Are you a Jew? Will you be allowed to worship in the Third Temple when it is built? Methinks not!
What was Cyrus Scofield trying to hide from us?
“The Tetragrammaton appears to have its origin in the phrase found in Exodus 3:14, “I am that I am”. Before this it was known as the Shem ha-meforash, the seventy-two syllabled name of God, made up of 216 letters.
The source of the Shem ha-meforash, according to tradition, are verses 19-21 of Exodus xiv, each of the three verses containing seventy-two Hebrew letters. The letters of verse 19 were written down in separated form and in correct order; the letters of verse 20, also in separated form, were written down in reverse order, and the letters of verse 21 were written down in correct order.
Reading from above down, one obtains seventy-two three-letter names, all of which combine to make one. To these three-lettered names were then added either AL or IH to form the names of the seventy-two angels of Jacob’s ladder.” Charles Ponce Kabbalah
The type of permutation described above is called Temura, and it is a common Kabbalist device. The three verses of Exodus 14:19-21 that constitute the Shem ha-meforash happen to describe how a pillar of cloud by day and fire by night appeared just prior to Moses’ leading the Hapiru across the Red Sea into the desert. This is a cipher, so that wherever a “pillar of fire by night” or “cloud by day” is mentioned in the Bible, one may substitute the Shem ha-meforash to obtain the proper Kabbalistic interpretation.
The Kabbalists know that the Shem ha-meforash – the Seventy-two Syllabled Name of God, the Seventy-two Angels of Jacob’s Ladder, the seventy-two Sanhedrin – are also the seventy-two proper names of daemons, who are sealed in the Key of Solomon. This Key is used by the Practical Kabbalist to construct talismans by which he may summon, or conjure, these beings. To the Speculative Kabbalist the names represent the seventy-two dominions, principalities, elementals, powers and paths over which he seeks mastery.
Thus, from a Kabbalistic perspective, the verse of Isaiah 4:5 is stating that after the Mountain of Zion has been constructed, the deity shall assign seventy-two daemons – an infernal Sanhedrin, if you will – to watch over Zion and protect it.
And that, my dear reader, is exactly what Cyrus Scofield called the Kingdom of Jesus! That, Christian, is what your ministers taught you is Jesus’ Second Coming! Ye worship ye know not what!
And who was Cyrus Scofield?
As a young con-artist in Kansas after the Civil War, he met up with John J. Ingalls, an aging Jewish lawyer who had been sent to Atchison by the “Secret Six” some thirty years before to work the Abolitionist cause. Pulling strings both in Kansas and with his compatriots back east, Ingalls assisted Scofield in gaining admission to the Bar, and procured his appointment as Federal Attorney for Kansas. Ingalls and Scofield became partners in a railroad scam which led to Cyrus serving time for criminal forgery.
While he was in prison, Scofield began studying the philosophy of John Darby, pioneer of the Plymouth Brethren movement and the “any moment now” rapture doctrine.
Upon his release from prison, Scofield deserted his first wife, Leonteen Carry Scofield, and his two daughters Abigail and Helen, and he took as his mistress a young girl from the St. Louis Flower Mission. He later abandoned her for Helen van Ward, whom he eventually married. Following his Illuminati connections to New York, he settled in at the Lotus Club, which he listed as his residence for the next twenty years. It was here that he presented his ideas for a new Christian Bible concordance, and was taken under the wing of Samuel Untermeyer, who later became chairman of the American Jewish Committee, president of the American League of Jewish Patriots, and chairman of the Non-sectarian Anti-Nazi League.
Untermeyer introduced Scofield to numerous Zionist and socialist leaders, including Samuel Gompers, Fiorello LaGuardia, Abraham Straus, Bernard Baruch and Jacob Schiff. These were the people who financed Scofield’s research trips to Oxford and arranged the publication and distribution of his concordance.
It is impossible to overstate the influence of Cyrus Scofield on twentieth-century Christian beliefs. The Scofield Bible is the standard reference work in virtually all Christian ministries and divinity schools. It is singularly responsible for the Christian belief that the Hebrew Prophecies describe the kingdom of Jesus’ Second Coming, and not the Zionist vision of a man-made New World Order.
And it is precisely because Christians persist in this belief that they remain blind to the reality of Zion.
Scofield served as the agent by which the Zionists paralyzed Christianity, while they prepared America for our final conquest.

The notion that the Pre-Tribulation Rapture specifically and the Rapture in general were an ivention of the early 1800’s originating with little Miss McDonald is simply false. Anyone continuing to believe this today in any respect is simply lacking knowledge of history or willfully ignorant of the facts wishing not to acknowledge the truth of the past. In essence, individuals who would like to change history to fit their own beliefs.
“Rapture”, in the context of eschatology, is an English word derived from the Latin rapio, (or variant spelling rapere) “caught up” as found in the Vulgate rendering of 1 Thessalonians 4:17.
The Oxford English Dictionary provides two pages describing the history of usage of the word in English back to as early as the 1400’s. From the 17th century onwards, the word is attested as rapture with similar senses to the older form rapt. The OED provides the etymology as from Latin rapere: to seize, especially abduct; it likens the words capture and rapture. Of particular note are the various distinctions involving either literal or figurative transport of body or emotions to heaven or from one place to another on earth.
a 1400: Þe visions of seynt poul wan he was rapt into paradys. — Vernon manuscript in Old English Miscellany 223
1412-20: In this wyse were the brethren twayne To heauen rapt, as thes poetes fayne. — John Lydgate, Chronicle of Troy 2:14
1432-50: Helyas was rapte in this tyme. — Ranulf Higden, Polychronicon, tr. John Trevisa, Rolls Series 3:25
1526: Whan he was rapt & taken vp in to the thyrde heuen. — William Bond, Pilgrim of Perfection, (Wynkyn de Worde, 1531): 25
1610: To this place … were Enoch, Elias and Paul rapt up fore their deaths. — John Guillim, A Display of Heraldry 3:2
1667: Rapt in a Chariot drawn by fiery Steeds. — John Milton, Paradise Lost 3:522
1866: He was rapt up on high and saw S. Peter. — Charles Kingsley, Hereward the Wake 1:12
Doctrinal history
The concept of the rapture, in connection with premillennialism, was expressed by the American Puritan father and son Increase and Cotton Mather. They held to the idea that believers would be caught up in the air, followed by judgments on the earth and then the millennium. The term rapture was used by Philip Doddridge (1738) and John Gill (1748) in their New Testament commentaries, with the idea that believers would be caught up prior to judgment on the earth and Jesus’ Second Coming. The concept of a pre-tribulation rapture was articulated by Baptist Morgan Edwards in an essay published in 1788 in Philadelphia.
Further back,,
The Shepherd of Hermes is one such ancient document.
We will acknowledge first that much of what is recorded in these texts does not agree with the teachings of the scripture. That fact alone establishes the complete set of manuscripts of no doctrinal value. But, setting aside that detail for the moment in order to analyze the contents of these documents, we learn one of the records makes mention of a vision the “shepherd” had of a giant raging beast. This animal made an attempt to charge the shepherd presumably to cause him great harm. The shepherd, however was able to escape by relying on God for protection.
The next vision he encounters is that of a beautiful maiden, identified by the shepherd himself as the Church. She in turn identifies the creature as an illustration of the Great Tribulation to come, and tells him he escaped it by putting his full trust in God. She then gives him the responsibility of informing all other believers they can do the same, but only if they too put their full trust in the Lord.
This is a very brief look and oversimplification of the content of those manuscripts. But since they have been accepted to have been written in the second century, it is concrete proof that the “concept” of the Rapture in general (as referring to an escape from a future time of Great Tribulation) and conditions connected to participating in that specific escape existed outside of Biblical text, but inside the body of the Church, to within approximately one hundred years of the physical death of Jesus Christ.
Even if the doctrine is in error, it was a belief of a portion of the membership of the Church, regardless of how few, documented to as early as the second century and there exists earlier evidence. Anyone choosing to deny the clear content of these articles, is blind wishing to remain so. You can honestly choose to believe and thereby continue to teach the doctrine to be in error, but you cannot deny that it was believed by a portion of the early Church. It existed, that is a fact.
There are numerous websites on the Internet that continue to expound the myth that the teaching of the Rapture was not even conceived of until the late 19th or early 20th century. Anyone denying the existence of this doctrine by even the smallest percentage of the early Church should be held suspect concerning any and all doctrines that are put forth by that person or organization.
Further, further back that even that,,,
The Post-Tribulationist overlooks completely the purpose of 2nd Thessalonians.
2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
The day of Christ mentioned here in verse two is not the Rapture. Nor is Paul informing the Church of Thessalonica in this particular passage that they had not missed the coming of Lord Jesus that they had been waiting for, as instructed. They had been informed by false teachers infiltrating the church that the day of Christ was at hand. In other words it was nigh, very close and that they should be preparing for it. What’s wrong with this picture, you might ask?
The problem was, the false teachers in question were Post-Tribulationists, and were teaching the day of Christos or the day of the Messiah (his coming in power and great glory at the end of The Great Tribulation Period) was at hand. Therefore, by the church’s understanding from the teachings of Paul in his first letter, they concluded they were inside the Great Tribulation Period and had missed “the gathering” of verse one as well as the teachings of Paul in 1st Thess. 4:16-18 (or the Rapture, that they knew would proceed the Great Tribulation).
The Thessalonians were the first “recorded” Partial Rapturists, although their were others. It was a common teaching of the day. If the teachings they were being exposed to were accurate, they had been “left behind” when the Lord had come to gather his bride. This can be easily seen in verse one by the manner in which Paul introduces the explanation to come.
Paul :
Now we beseech you, brethren, (the believers of the church, and by the way, the lost were not being addressed, they are not brethren)
by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, (the Glorious Appearing of which they understood Paul to teach would end the Great Tribulation, but were now being instructed was closing in on the world)
and by our gathering together unto him, (the gathering of the Bride, which in consideration to Paul‘s earlier teachings of 1st Thessalonians 4:13-18 concerning our being “caught up together“, they were now being informed by false teachers they had missed).
The mention of both comings in reverse order (much like Luke’s description of a more complex sequence in chapter 17:28-36 of his Gospel) is repeated in the following verses. They were confused, and it was Paul’s intention to re-educate them drawing from the lessons of his first letter, as well as his prior visit.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Let no man deceive you by any means: (self explanatory)
for that day (the day of Christ, Christos, The day of The Messiah or conquering King of Israel)
shall not come, (self explanatory)
except (until)
there come a falling away (of which some modern Christians consider to be believers falling away from the truth of the gospel or faithfulness to the Lord, still others believe it could be an obscure mention of the Rapture itself)
first (self explanatory),
and that man of sin (the anti-christ)
be revealed, (self explanatory)
the son of perdition (further identifying the anti-christ).
The key to understanding this passage is in the correct identification of the English phrase “falling way“, translated from the Greek word apostasia.
One, but only one, of the contextual meanings inside the definition is “a departure”. That reference inside the definition has prompted some Pre-Tribulationists to entertain the possibility that the proper translation is just that. Literally a departure, meaning the Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Bride. After all, such an interpretation would agree with their timing of the doctrine.
However, accepting the translation “a departure” at face value and inferring it to be referring directly to the “catching up” of the Bride at the time of the Rapture is a selection by the individual of the portion of the definition that appeals to them based on their current beliefs. The actual definition is as follows.
apostasia – the feminine form of the same, (in the neutral, apostasion) – defection (or departure) from the truth (the state of) “apostasy” falling away, to forsake.
So, within the definition we do have an understanding of a departure being conveyed, but only in reference to a defection or forsaking of, the truth. The structure of the sentence itself, nor the definition of the word in the original Greek, make claim inside the context of the passage to a departure as some Pre-Tribulationists suggest. This view must first be inferred, then in turn interpreted as such by the reader. That being the case, it would be more likely that the traditional belief of the church experiencing a departure from the truth or the occurrence of a falling away from the faith just before the Rapture, would be correct. That is, if it were not for another little known definitionary fact.
apostasia – the feminine form of the same, (in the neutral, apostasion)
“apostasia” is the feminine form of its counterpart “apostasion” which is the neutral of the same. Namely, the same subject matter. In the feminine it retains its own definitions of defection, departure, falling away, or forsake, but only within the subject matter of its neutral counterpart, establishing the context of the passage. The neutral form possesses the same attributes, but in a manner active to the subject matter it “specifically” defines.
apostasion – neutral – something separative, specifically divorce, – (writing of) divorcement.
With the word apostasia being by definition “the same as” apostasion in feminine form, the action being discussed in this passage is “in the feminine” a falling away, the state of apostasy, to forsake, a defection from the “Truth” (in subject, the coming of the Lord), but in a setting of divorce defined by its counterpart, apostasion.
The only state that could be being described in relation to this passage is the Partial Rapture’s teaching of the unfaithful and disobedient members of the church being divorced by their Bridegroom the Lord Jesus Christ at the time he comes for his faithful Bride. That would cause the majority of the Church of God to be “Left Behind” at the time of the Rapture, to enter into and endure (and to be martyred inside) the Great Tribulation Period.
So, the “falling away” is speaking of the Coming of the Lord, but is the record of his rejection of the portion of the church who is in violation of its marriage vows, and committing adultery against its Bridegroom.
Paul is teaching them that just as they understood the Rapture of the Bride (or catching up) will proceed the Glorious Appearing, the revealing of the anti-christ and the beginning of The Great Tribulation itself, it will unfortunately also result in the divorce of the unfaithful as well. He is actually confirming the teaching of The Partial Rapture as valid, but reassures them those who remain obedient to the Lord will not be included in the rejection.
The largest majority of the modern church feels, (And I was actually told this next statement by an obvious opponent of these teachings) “That is the single most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. The scripture doesn’t say anything even remotely similar to that anywhere. You would have to torture a passage of scripture to the point of absurdity to get it to “confess” to such a thing.”
Oh, Really ? !!
Revelation 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Keep in mind, adultery can only be committed against ones own spouse. The individuals being addressed by Jesus are espoused (or engaged) to Christ. 2nd Corinthians 11:1-3.
I do not know how long I sat trying to write a final paragraph to emphasis the teachings that have been presented here. You know, put the final touches on an article that would really illustrate the dangers the Lord Jesus Christ himself warned us of in Luke 21:34-36.
Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and [the] cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
But Revelation 2:22, in perfect harmony with the balance of the scripture, says it all.
The Dave MacPherson PRETRIB RAPTURE DISHONESTY claim and,,,
The Thief in the Night ministries Pre-Trib Liars claim,,,
My only true concern here is to explain that an individual can not be perpetrating a deception or be a liar if there is not any intended or deliberate deception involved in the message being conveyed. An individual may be wrong, but they can not be a deciever or a liar if they truly believe what they are teaching. One has to “know” that what they are teaching is not the truth, and continue teaching it despite that knowledge.
I am not a liar, or a deceiver. 99.99% of all Pre-Trib Rapture teachers are not liars or deceivers. (I am sure there is somebody in it for the money, what little there is in it, so I allot that theoretical group of individuals, however many there are of them, .01%.)
Rev. J. W. (Bro. Chip) White, Jr.
revjwwhitejr@aol.com
Author : The Partial Rapture “Theory” Explained / Escaping The Coming Storm
partialrapture.net
Pastor :Courtland Baptist Church
P. O. BOX 550
Queen City, Texas 75572

George Eldon Ladd, who was a believer in post-trib premillennialism, even admitted in his book on the subject that the millennium is only mentioned in Revelation 20. Ladd said the Gospels seem to hold an amillennial view even though he himself remained premillennialist. John Walvoord accused Dr. Ladd of being an amillennialist. I agree with Dr. Ladd that pretribulationism is unscriptural and wrong. I must agree.

MY PAINSTAKING REFUTATION OF THE ARTICLE: 12 REASONS NOT TO EXCEPT A PRE-TRIBULATION RATURE
1. As Pre-Trib writer and leader John Walvoord admits, there is NO SINGLE verse of Scripture that by itself clearly teaches the Pre-Trib Rapture.
RESPONSE:
First, John Walvoord is far from the only authority on pre-trib rapture and one person saying a statement like this means nothing. Here are two verses that clearly teach an imminent rapture:
“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.” (1 Thess, 4:16-18).
“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality” (1 Cor. 15:51-53).
The timing of the rapture is not known. From the Word of God and from sound reasoning–something Jesus used quite frequently–I hope to prove the reality of the pretribulation rapture.
The word “rapture” comes from Paul’s “caught up” remark in verse 17. The words “caught up” are translated from the Greek word harpazo, which means “to carry off,” “snatch up,” or “grasp hastily.” The translation from harpazo to “rapture” involved two steps: first, harpazo became the Latin word raptus; second, raptus became the English word “rapture.”
2. Pre-Trib’ers FORCE ASSUMPTIONS on many key Bible verses – especially assuming that all references to “saints” and to the “elect” (who are being persecuted and martyred during the “end-times’ tribulation”) must refer to “those individuals who are saved” AFTER the Pre-Trib Rapture has taken place. (Again, how are all these folks getting saved during the “end-times’ tribulation” if the “Church” and the “restrainer” [i.e., the Holy Spirit according to Pre-Trib’ers] have been removed?)
You are assuming that everyone who claims to be “Christian” will be raptured. Many (and I mean like 90%) will be left behind, many of them being those who did not believe in a pre-tribulation rapture. Only those who are ready (having a full oil lamp, living a holy life and are not loving the world (idolatry) will be ready for the rapture).
The first thing that you must understand is the purpose for the Tribulation. The Tribulation is a time of judgment on the earth and punishment for Israel. Please note that Israel and the Church are not the same group of people. The Church is a spiritual organism. People in the Church are related because of their spiritual birth (by being born again – John 3:3). The people of Israel (Jews) are related by blood. This is a race of people to whom God made special promises in the Old Testament. God declared a time of judgment upon Israel for their unfaithfulness. This time of judgment is clearly declared to be only for Israel (Daniel 9:24-27).
3. We are NOT able to find one single instance in the New Testament where the Lord Jesus Christ, the Apostle Paul, the Apostle Peter, or the Apostle John made any statement to the effect that “the church is to be evacuated off of planet Earth seven years PRIOR to the beginning of the end-times’ tribulation period”. Isn’t that a bit strange if the Pre-Trib Rapture prophetic viewpoint is the correct one?
RESPONSE:
Paul, Peter, nor John has said any statement to the effect that “the church is to go through the tribulation and then be raptured AFTER the 7 year tribulation period” either. The rapture is a resurrection of those “in Christ” (1 Thess. 4:13-18 ). Isn’t it a little bit odd that in Rev. 19:11-21, which is the clearest picture of the second coming of Christ, there is no mention of a resurrection? The rapture will be the biggest event since the resurrection of Jesus where hundreds of millions of Christians will be resurrected and translated, yet there isn’t any mention here. Don’t you think it deserves at least one verse? The rapture isn’t mentioned because it doesn’t happen at the second coming.
In 2 Thess. 2:6-7, Paul says “the one who restrains will be taken out of the way” before the Antichrist can be revealed.
Peter did allude in a vague way to the Rapture in 2 Peter 2:9 where He documented the fact that God knows how to distinguish the righteous from the unrighteous. Not only does he use Lot as an example in verses 7-8 (Remember, the angels could not judge Sodom and Gommorah until Lot and his family had left. Many scholars see Lot’s experience as a model of the Rapture.) but he also used language reminiscent of 1 Thes. 1:10 when He explained that God will rescue godly men from trials while holding the unrighteous for the day of judgment. The Greek word translated “from” in verse 9 means “out of, or away from”.
In the book of John, Jesus uses the term “last day” to indicate when the lost would be judged. II Peter 3:10-13 The “Day of the Lord” Peter spoke of in second Peter, cannot be a one day event because it mentions the destruction of the earth by fire and its renovation. Rev 21:11 tells us the earth will not be renewed until after Christ’s 1000 year reign. Rev 20 makes it clear that the unsaved will not be judged until after the millennium–yet another 1000 year gap.
Surely, Paul would not be warning us to watch for a day that would be coming at the end of the tribulation. That type of logic would be like warning children, as they cross the road, to watch out for tail lights.
4. Despite taking several texts OUT OF CONTEXT from a few early church fathers’ writings, the Pre-Trib’ers really CANNOT find any predominant, popular teaching that supports the Pre-Trib Rapture prophetic viewpoint in any era of Church history prior to the 1830s.
RESPONSE:
But, is that assessment historically accurate? Indeed, it is not.
The Early Church fathers’ such as Barnabas (ca.100-105), Papias (ca. 60-130), Justin Martyr (110-195), Irenaeus (120-202), Tertullian (145-220), Hippolytus (ca. 185-236), Cyprian (200-250), and Lactantius (260-330) wrote on the imminent return of Jesus Christ, the central argument for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture view.
Biblical truth is determined by Scripture, and not how that teaching has been perceived at different times during history. When Augustine began spiritualizing the Bible, his view of a non-literal interpretation took hold of the church until the Renaissance, obliterating the Premillennial and Pre-Tribulation Rapture views in favor of Amillennialism. But, some Medieval writers such as Ephraem of Nisibis (306-373), Abbot Ceolfrid’s Latin Codex Amiatinus (ca. 690-716), and Brother Dolcino wrote statements that distinguish the Rapture from the Second Coming.
When the chains of allegorical interpretation began to fall off beginning with the Reformation in the 1400 and 1500s, writers such as Joseph Mede (1586-1638), Increase Mather (1639-1723), Peter Jurieu (1687), Philip Doddridge (1738), John Gill (1748), James Macknight (1763), Thomas Scott (1792) and Morgan Edwards (1722-1795) all wrote concerning the Rapture occurring separate from the Second Coming. Even in the more modern church, those like William Witherby (1818) were precursors to John Darby in support of the view. The Pre-Tribulation Rapture view is indeed then not only biblical, but supported throughout Church history.
5. Many learned men of the Christian faith, such as John Bunyan, Charles Spurgeon, Charles Finney, John Knox, John Calvin, Martin Luther, George Whitefield, etc., were all solid Post-Trib believers!
RESPONSE:
Appealing to authority to substantiate your argument is not proof that your argument is more valid. Many learned men of the Christian faith, such as Jimmy Swaggart, J. Dwight Pentecost, Tim LaHaye, J. Vernon McGee, Perry Stone, Chuck Smith, Hal Lindsey, Chuck Missler, Jack Van Impe, Grant Jeffrey, Thomas Ice, David Reagan, David Jeremiah, and John Hagee are all solid PRE-trib believers!
6. The Pre-Trib Rapture is a very big “cash cow” for Pre-Trib writers. Yet, there are some Pre-Trib’ers who will admit that the Pre-Trib Rapture prophetic viewpoint is still a minority viewpoint among Bible scholars. How can that be, you may ask, since so many prophecy books favor the “Pre-Trib” viewpoint? That is because so many of the major “Christian” publishing houses are, for the most part, CONTROLLED by “liberal Christians”. Post-Trib writers often find it extremely hard to get their books published by these publishing houses, because Pre-Trib “sells”. (Could that be because the Pre-Trib Rapture appeals to an “escapist” mentality? It’s that mentality of “I sure don’t want to be here when the Antichrist takes over!” The Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint appeals to our “flesh” – after all, who wants to face persecution?) Also, Dr. Robert “Bob” Gundry says that most of the professors [at Bible colleges] that he knows hold the Post-Trib Rapture viewpoint. He adds that even some of the professors at Bible colleges of the “Pre-Trib Rapture persuasion” hold the Post-Trib viewpoint, but cannot say so publicly for fear of losing their positions! Students who openly advocate Post-Trib at these “Pre-Trib Bible colleges” might not be allowed to graduate!
RESPONSE:
I’m weary of those who mock the Pre-Tribulation position by saying it’s escapist. They claim that since countless believers have faced tribulation, persecution and martyrdom, why should we hope to escape it?
The answer is simple: Up till the time of the Rapture, the trouble Christians have faced came from this corrupt and rebellious world system that hated them; it was Satan’s wrath they endured. Jesus told us to expect THAT kind of trouble. But the trouble of the Tribulation comes from God’s hand – it’s His wrath, and Jesus already paid for that for us.
In Luke 21:34-36 Jesus said –
34 “But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly.
The “Day” He refers to here is the Day of the Lord, a period of history that begins with the Rapture.
35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth.
There’s that phrase – “earth-dwellers” again.
36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”
A Pre-Trib Rapture isn’t escapist. It’s the thing Jesus told us to look and pray we’d be ready for!
7. Despite the fact that many Pre-Trib’ers dislike author Dave MacPherson, they have NOT been able to disprove his well-documented findings that show that the Pre-Trib Rapture’s origins (as far as any public teaching) date back to the 1830s – and not earlier than that era! Nor have the Pre-Trib’ers been able to disprove MacPherson’s findings that the vast majority of the early church fathers taught that the church would go THROUGH the “end-times’ tribulation” – and lots of tribulation along the way to the “end-times’ tribulation”.
RESPONSE:
Well, this info must be outdated or is someone’s opinion because he is not a credible historian from my research.
In his books The Incredible Cover-Up and The Great Rapture Hoax, MacPherson professes to be a historian. His work is lacking in historical method. Consider his claim that William Kelly, as editor of Darby’s Collected Writings, manipulated them. Regarding Darby’s Notes on Revelation (1839) MacPherson writes:
We’ve previously noted that a chart (listing no artist or date) accompanying this work shows the church in heaven no later than Revelation 4 -additional manipulation and further contradiction of Darby’s Revelation 12 basis! (p. 152)
I have inspected a xeroxed copy of the 1839 edition of this work published by Central Tract Depot, London. The chart in question is there and shows the church in heaven in Revelation chapter 4! MacPherson’s speculation is without foundation. A true historian would inspect the original source materials before making the claims that MacPherson does. He is governed by an agenda, not a desire for unbiased historical research.
Here are a few of the many deficiencies that I found in The Rapture Plot:
1. MacPherson states that the key symbol of the pre tribulation rapture for Margaret Macdonald is the catching up of the two witnesses of Revelation 11 (p. 47-49). If this is true, one wonders if MacPherson has ever read Revelation 11. Before the witnesses are caught up (verse 12), the beast makes war with them and kills them (verse 7). Thus the two witnesses go through tribulation before they are killed, raised and caught up. So if Macdonald’s teaching is based on this passage, she is certainly post tribulational! Actually, there is no doubt that the woman who said, “The trial of the Church is from Antichrist” was post tribulational.
This is just some of the massive problems with Dave MacPerson’s credibility and research and therefore his assessment of the pre-tribulation rapture viewpoint is also not credible.
8. Public teaching of the Pre-Trib Rapture originated in the British Isles during the 1830s. (The Jesuits did some “futurist creativity” in the prophetic arena many years prior to that time.) The Pre-Trib “theory” was then “transported” to America a little bit later, and was popularized by the “Scofield Study Bible”.
RESPONSE:
Most importantly, the doctrine of the rapture does not stand or fall on who may have first noticed and taught certain elements of doctrine in scripture. The rapture doctrine is valid only if it is supported by scripture. The Protestant reformation was based on turning to scripture to resolve matters.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That alone should be enough to put this entire matter to rest, and nothing more need be said. It is obvious that we must agree that something true, such as 2+2=4, remains true, even when such a truth is spoken by a liar, or the most evil man. Truth does not become untrue just because an evil or stupid man speaks it. Therefore, there is simply no basis for the claim that the rapture is an evil deception because futurism was once taught by an evil Jesuit. I could read 1000 pages on how the Jesuits are evil, and I can even agree on that. I could even read about, and agree that, an evil Jesuit expounded the doctrine of futurism for the evil purpose of trying to discredit the Protestant reformation. But neither of those facts has any bearing on the truthfulness of the doctrine of the pretribulation rapture.
Further, not only is the entire idea of the “Jesuit rapture” irrelevant (only scripture is relevant) but also, the idea is absurd. The doctrine of the pretribulation rapture is simply not taught by the Catholic Church! Therefore, the doctrine of the pretribulation rapture condemns the Catholic Church because it makes the Catholic Church into a “false prophet” since they do not teach it! I could go further but I feel its not necessary.
9. To believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture, one must ignore several key Bible verses that speak directly against the Pre-Trib Rapture, such as John 17:15 where the Lord Jesus Christ Himself prays that the Father NOT take believers OUT OF the world – and I Thessalonians 4:16, 17 (which says that the Christians living at the time of Jesus Christ’s return are not caught up UNTIL AFTER the “dead in Christ” are raised “FIRST”)!
RESPONSE:
Well, this just shows you are not as well versed in interpreting scripture.
Using John 17:15 this way, you are taking that verse way out of context. He is talking about them staying on earth to spread the true Gospel of Christ. he didn’t want to take them home right away but leave them to do a specific Job. but he also wanted them to be protected from the devil. Now why does Paul say in Corinthians, the dead in Christ shall rise first and then we which remain shall meat Him in the air. Notice we shall meat Him in the air. he will not come to earth so this is not talking of the second coming because he doesn’t actually come. what else could it be. THE RAPTURE!!!
10. Believing in the Pre-Trib Rapture, it seems to me, goes AGAINST the prevalent theme of those portions of the Bible that deal with tribulation and persecution. That prevalent theme is “preservation IN THE MIDST OF tribulation”. (Please recall the accounts of Daniel in the lions’ den, and of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego in the fiery furnace!)
RESPONSE:
The expression “kept from” is very important. It does not mean “preservation through” or “preservation in” but it means “exemption from.” The Post-Tribulation view and the Pre-Wrath view both see the believer staying on the earth during the Tribulation period. “Preservation through” would fit their view because they understand that God will preserve the Church through the Tribulation or through most of the Tribulation. “Exemption from” best fits the Pre- Tribulation view because the Church is not on the earth at all during the Tribulation and thus the Church is exempt from the trials and troubles associated with that time. The term “kept from” best fits the idea of “exemption from.”
Literally this phrase means “to be kept out of” [Greek, ek]. Its meaning is similar to how we use these terms in English. To be kept out of jail means that the person will not be behind bars. To be kept out of the swimming pool means that the person is exempt from getting wet.
Does God keep us out of the realm and power of the evil one or are we still in it?
The answer is found in Colossians 1:13– “Who hath delivered us from [out of] the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son.” We once were in the realm of the power of darkness, but we have been delivered out of that realm when we were saved.
There are countless other examples that support this fact.
11. To believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture, you have to ASSUME that you will be among a very “select group” of Christians who will not have to suffer horrible things during the “end-times’ tribulation”. Your “select group” excludes those MILLIONS of Christians from past centuries who were NOT “air evacuated” out of their tribulation and suffering, and the many individuals who get “saved” (i.e., are “born again”) during the “end-times’ tribulation”, and who will suffer martyrdom!
RESPONSE:
In answer to the question, “Will the Church go through Tribulation?” we must answer “YES!”
In answer to the question, “Will the Church go through THE Tribulation?” the answer is “NO!
Those who are left behind will have to suffer persecution. (remember, not everyone who says they are Christians really are). Also, there is no assumption to who will or will not be raptured. If you are “ready and waiting” like the 5 wise virgins in the parable of the 10 virgins, you will be raptured. Unfortunately, few are actually ready and still are attached to this world, still sinning, still lukewarm (or not really for God) or believe in the wrong stuff. Saying you are a Christian does not mean you are Christ-like, just like sitting in a garage doesn’t makes you a car.
12. The Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint, for the most part, seems to produce very BAD FRUIT – that is, it seems to have “neutralized” many Christians living today, causing them to sit back and to NOT fight evil. (And that’s, because, don’t you know, they won’t be here when things get really bad.) Could this “doctrine” have been specifically designed to “neutralize” Christians?
RESPONSE:
It is very true that there are many Christians who are “neutralized” or a better BIBLICAL term, Lukewarm, but this is not caused by the pre-tribulation rapture viewpoint. If they believed the rapture was imminent, and that the requirements for the rapture is holiness and righteous, and those left behind included sinners (christian or not), the lukewarm, the the worldly Christians, I think a lot of people would be on fire for God using the pre-trib rapture viewpoint. On the other hand, post-trib viewpoint would cause one to be lazy or not alert since there would be no rapture to worry about (or in this case, miss) and getting rid of sin in your life would not need any rush because “you will go through the tribulation”. Making an assumption that ALL Christians would be raptured is what is causing post-trib’ers to be confused. The road is narrow to the kingdom of heaven, while the road to destruction is wide. So I think you got it neutralizing viewpoints backwards.
MY SUMMARY;
There is what I call “cumulative relevance” where when you take all the evidence for any given viewpoint and they all outweigh the other viewpoint, that it logically concludes that the one with the most cumulative relevance is the correct idea. There is more evidence for pre-tribulation rapture than post-trib.
This information includes:
-Countless youtube videos from people of every age, race, gender and biblical knowledge level confirming the pre-tribulation, immanency of the rapture.-
-Many biblical events mirror or proclaims a pre-tribulation rapture picture (The ancient Jewish marriage ceremony, Song of Solomon 2:08-14, supernatural translation events like Encoch before the flood, Elijah in a whirlwind in the early times of Israel, resurrection and ascension of Jesus, resurrection and ascension of the two witnesses, and several more)
-Every testimony from God to someone ALWAYS confirms a pre-tribulation rapture. God always tells them to “stay ready”, “be prepared,” “I am coming for my bride”, “I am at the doors”, “I come soon”, “The wedding feast is ready”.
God has told Susan Davis, a prophet about what will happen soon. Here is an excerpt from “marriage supper of the lamb”. This is God speaking:
“Many will witness this Event as those left behind. Fewer will witness it as those who are taken out of the earth. I want you to be one of those who are rescued, but you must be made ready if you want to come out with ME. Only those who have washed themselves white in MY Blood and who are avidly watching for MY Soon Return will be coming with ME, when I call MY bride up hither. Only a few will be coming. This is serious, MY children, all others will stay behind.”
and
“Children, you need to be ready. Don’t be caught unawares. I do not want to leave anyone behind, but sadly many will be left. What a sad hour is coming. I want you to awaken. Come to terms with this reality. I am approaching and I am even at the door. Soon, no one will be surprised anymore as reality will set in as to what has happened. The world will know that change has come to it, great changes. It will not be the same place very soon. MY children, listen to ME closely, I will not take you if you have unrepentant sin. I cannot take you with ME. It cannot be, MY children. So come before ME and repent of your sin. Please make this a priority.”
read the entire revelation free at:http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/162979
and at: http://end-times-prophecy.com/blog/
Remember, if I am wrong, I will STILL be ready for the tribulation and I will just say “oops, i was wrong”. If YOU are wrong, you will be left behind and will have to fight through torture, heavy deception and resisting the mark of the beast and the beasts’ wrath on Christians. I have nothing to loose in believing in pre-tribulation rapture, but YOU have almost EVERYTHING to loose if you believe in a post-tribulation rapture. So consider changing your view just to be sure. Its in YOUR best interest to believe in the pre-tribulation rapture. If you are ready for the pre-trib, you are ready for the post-trib as well. Its only logical. You must be skeptical of your own belief in order to know if your belief is indeed true. Otherwise, you will not know if you are being deceived or not. This is a matter of life or death. You have very little time left if it a pre-tribulation rapture. Choose wisely. Thanks for your time.
MOST OF MY SOURCES FOR RESEARCH TO REFUTE THIS ARTICLE:
http://www.gotquestions.org/left-behind-rapture.html
http://www.raptureready.com/rr-pre-trib-rapture.html
http://www.soulwinning.info/prophecy/2nd_peter_39.htm
http://lamblion.com/articles/articles_rapture7.php
http://www.seekfirstwisdom.com/index.php?p=1_102_Problem-With-Post-Tribulation
http://www.raptureready.com/rr-pre-trib-rapture.html
http://www.raptureforums.com/forum/christian-chat/23463-iron-clad-proof-rapture-pre-trib.html
http://www.raptureforums.com/Rapture/sixteenproofs.cfm
http://prophecy.landmarkbiblebaptist.net/rapture-proofs.html
http://christianitynotchurchianity.blogspot.com/2008/03/more-proof-of-pre-trib-rapture.html
http://www.raptureme.com/rap199.html
http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/pages/rapture/the-pretribulation-rapture-explained.htm
http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/proph/prewrath.htm
http://end-times-prophecy.com/blog/

Corruptions that are brought about to the Apostasy, Prophesied. A visionary by the Spirit standing in what looked like a Church saw a group of people discussing among themselves, when all of a sudden the visionary recognized among them a woman, her head covered(due baldness) & on noticing this the woman attacked the visionary,when at the same moment come out the Lords Prayer from the Visionary. in the Spirit, to which the woman fled cursing away as a lawless one . Incidentally the woman was found to be the spirit of QE 1(excommunicated by St. Pius the V) & the church was west Minister Abbey where are buried the Royals. Now to the understanding by the Lords Prayer is the Kingdom of God against the Kingdom of the woman, this world, on whom the satanic attributes spoken unto the Prince of Tyre can said to fall upon arising from the corruptions of the Messanic temple to form the MASONIC temple. to which the kingdoms of this world relates by the corruptions, occult & the violences. &above all by deceit, the result is clearly to the Biblical Prophecy. Moreover “The Lie of the Golden Calf” is exposed looking at the various alters figured within the Freemasonic Israeli Supreme Court, the Abomination that stands by to the cause of the desolation.

Pretrib Rapture History’s Stages
If a young woman in Scotland hadn’t dreamed up the “pre-tribulation fly-away” in 1830; if a British clergyman hadn’t hijacked her dream and sneakily planted it around the world in the 1800s; if a crooked, jailed-for-forgery lawyer with no theological background hadn’t come out with a reference Bible in 1909 with the same fly-away escapism in marginal notes; and if modern-day rapture robber barons and tribulational tycoons hadn’t found numerous ways (and gimmicks like four “blood moons”) to widely mass-market the same delicious delusion for the masses while breaking sales records, no one could now be into the moonshine, looking up at the moon and saying “Moon, you mush be drunk becaush I shee four of you!” LOL (If none of this had ever happened, no one would have written anti-pretrib articles that are on Google etc., articles like “Evangelicals Use Occult Deception,” “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty,” “Pretrib Rapture Pride,” and “Pretrib Rapture Stealth.” And no one would have written “The Rapture Plot” – the most accurate, most detailed, and most highly endorsed nonfiction history of the 184-year-old pretrib rapture theory, available by calling 800.643.4645; the author of it will give $1000 to anyone proving there is any deliberate dishonesty in it.)
[Hi, Jeff. The preceding snippet was spotted on the ever present web. Would like to see reactions.]

Can you explain this?
Please observe:
Luke 17:36-37
36 Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”[f]
37 And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”
So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”
Rightly divided with this (2 Tim. 2:15):
Revelation 19:21
And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.
Please note that the context of the Rev. verse I posted is indeed when the Lord returns; when heaven is opened and the son of man is revealed.
So please explain, sincerely,
Jonathan
P.S. My weblog is meccasevenmountains.blogspot.com
P.P.S. Let this just be fuel to the fire to those that agree. So, in other words, you don’t need to explain it to me. But for those that disagree please email me with an explanation.
P.P.P.S. And to all:
I sincerely ask you all to enjoy my weblog.

Which is correct? 2+2=4 or 2×2=4? (Both!) The Jews in Jesus time looked at the prophecies of Him coming as a King, not prophecies of Him coming to die. (Both were true – Two incidents.) Because of their blinders, they rejected Jesus. Only those without blinders were saved. (Don’t repeat history!) Read to the end, please.
Some are looking for Jesus after the Tribulation starts – some before. (Both are true – Two incidents.) Those who say “after” are right! Some Christians WILL go through the Tribulation and will be killed. (True!) After the Last Trumpet of the Tribulation, everyone will see Jesus’ second coming. (True!)
What happens before the Tribulation? The Rapture. Jesus will not come back to earth. We will go to Him! Jesus said He is coming “like a thief in the night” and people will be “eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage.” If this was after the Tribulation, people would not be living that way and they would not be surprised when Jesus comes back 7 years after the Tribulation starts.
In Luke 12:45, one servant is beating the other servants telling them the Lord is delaying His return. He will be cut to pieces. Please don’t tell Christians Jesus is delaying His return. Tell them to WATCH because it could happen this month.
I Thes 5:4 says, “But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.” Jesus told us to keep watch. Be sober. It will happen at a time we think not.
Google “Feast of Trumpets Rapture.” They also have a “Last Trumpet.” (Both are true!) In the Tribulation, an angel blows the last trumpet. In the Rapture, it is the trumpet of God – not angels. (Two different incidents.)

Concerning point 11. How do you explain the scripture that promise that the end times church will not suffer the wrath of God? I Thessalonians 1:9-10, I Thessalonians 5:9-11, Titus 2:11-13, James 5:8-9, Luke 21:34-36. It is the wrath of God that occurs during those seven years, not the tribulation perpetrated by Satan and evil people.