I'm upping the ante. My $1,500 Challenge is now a $3,000 Challenge!

My $3,000 Challenge!

I will now give $3,000 to anyone who can refute my Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way article.
It’s time, pastors, to either put up or shut up — or Let Us Be ONE — Jesus’ heart-cry for us in John 17 finally realized!!!
Stop teaching the false salvation doctrine that is deceiving the world and destroying this country. You are responsible.
Jesus:

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. (Mt. 7:21)

Do you teach what Jesus, John, James and Paul taught?
Or another gospel? God says “You’re in trouble” — unless you repent!
It’s too late to save this country from the serious trouble that is coming — but we can all be ONE in Christ no matter what:
‘Let Us Be ONE’ Prophecy Continues 10/8/08: “It’s TOO LATE to REVERSE what’s been done for MY MEN have been REJECTEDNow is the Time to OVERCOME and GET RIGHT With ALL … FREEeeeeeeeeeeeee———DOM at last … Your HEART will SWELL with LOVE and it will be EASY to REMAIN In Me when others are On The BOAT With You”

$3,000 Challenge Details Here

19 thoughts on “I'm upping the ante. My $1,500 Challenge is now a $3,000 Challenge!

  1. loyd

    Please stop ranting. When are you ever sure you are saved? The answer is never. You are a tormented person with a bitter root judgement. It is sad to see how driven you really are. I doubt you have 3000 dollars, which is so childish to bring into your theory.
    You think you can keep yourself saved when God’s grace is sufficient to keep you. Full surrender to this truth will set you free to follow the One who saved you all the days of your life. Surely, goodness and mercy will follow me all the days of my lfe, and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever. Just send me the check and when it bounces I will send it back.

    1. Jeff Fenske

      Readers,
      This is part 2 of Loyd’s criticism that he posted a few minutes before this one here. My comments and his first comment are there also.
      We can easily know if we’re going to heaven when we’re in Christ according to what the Bible really says this means, which I explain in Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way. That’s what the whole article is about, really. We all can and should know. And the only wise way to live this life is to make sure we’re living within God’s parameters, truly on our way to heaven.
      Lloyd accuses me of being a liar, offering a sum I couldn’t pay out. First, I understand that all liars will end up in the lake of fire according to Revelation 21. And I’ve worked for the same company for 31 years. My job history is shown in images and text at my personal blog: jefffenske.com.
      Also, this challenge isn’t a gimmick, but it will rile up demonic forces who have almost a total lock on what Christians believe regarding salvation. I’m willing to risk my own, hard-earned money to hopefully help end their brainwashing campaign which has rendered the church so ineffective that our country is at the brink of collapse so the one-world government may be soon realized.
      The only way to overcome in the last days will be to truly overcome. Most who accept the once-saved-always-saved and “it’s hard to lose our salvation” doctrines are not overcoming enough. We need to get our doctrines right, and then revival will come. Then we can be safe in Him no matter what.
      We need to be getting ready for the day they’ll say: “either take the mark or you and your children won’t eat.”
      The pre-tribulation rapture cannot be proven biblically, and if one does happen, only those who are truly abiding in Christ will be taken out anyway.
      Doctrines of demons have destroyed the church and hence, America. And now we’re even the bullies of the world, even helping to bring about the one-world government with our reverse-Christian wars that are taking out countries that wouldn’t go along with the one-world government.
      America’s getting jacked. I document this at tobefree.press, if you’re interested. It’s all happening before our eyes, just as the church has gotten jacked. And in both cases, it has largely been done through disinformation. If we do our own homework, we’ll really find out what is going on. And only then can we be free.
      Why is it that hardly any Christians have made sure what the Bible says about who goes to heaven? Isn’t this strange that probably the most consequential doctrine has hardly been studied by those who will be totally affected by it? Why do most pastors, especially, not make sure that what they’re teaching is what the Bible really says — especially when we see that what is being taught isn’t working. We don’t see the fruit in the church that the Bible says should be there.
      Wouldn’t you think it is time to reassess?
      I implore those of you who care about your own eternity and hopefully many others, please explore what the Bible really says. Please start over, praying out the demons who would want you to shut your heart and mind to the truth of the Word of God.
      It’s crystal clear, and it’s been there in the Bible all the time. “Luther didn’t get it.” See my posts under the category of this name. What most teach, today, is variations on his doctrine, which he got mostly from the introductions to Paul’s writings, which Paul clarifies later on in the texts.
      And then people prayed that their children and congregants would believe this doctrine over and above the Catholic doctrine, which had serious problems as well. “Doctrines of demons” isn’t just a phrase. James talked about how ‘Christians’ can curse people via demonic power in James 3. See my “‘Christians’ Cursing People” category. It happens all the time. Churches are brainwashing, mind-control institutions, and it’s largely done through “prayer” (James-3 curses).
      The people and pastors may mean well, but when they pray that people believe doctrines that are actually false, it’s not God who answers those prayers. And if people still think that demons can’t directly influence ‘Christians,’ you’re ignoring some key texts on this subject, and probably not hearing what the Holy Spirit has been trying to show you — so you could get free!
      God wants us all free from all demons. But most ‘Christians’ are largely controlled by them, driven by them. And then they think they can’t get free — because that hasn’t been their experience.
      Well, how about us letting the Word of God be our standard instead of our experience? And how about all of us getting to a place where there will only be one voice left for us to hear: the still small voice of the Holy Spirit?
      And how about us getting back to real worship: loving the Lord, our God, with ALL of our heart, soul, mind and strength — and loving all of our neighbors as ourselves too?
      “The kingdom of God suffers violence, and the violent take it by force!”
      What are we going to do? Let the pied piper lull us down the road to destruction — Easy Street?
      Or will we take the Hard Road, determined to only walk on it no matter what they say, no matter what people think?
      And when revival does fully come, when we’re all ONE in Christ, then it will be easy for many to join. The glory will be so evident — though many will be scared to and stay away, just as in the book of Acts.
      So are we going to build it so He can come, so we won’t get zapped because of our willful sin that now keeps Him away: [video] Mike Bickle: Making a Purity Covenant so the HOLY Spirit can come and we won’t get zapped … to bless His heart — that we may be ONE!?
      God wants to come and indwell us with great joy and peace and life overflowing. See what I quoted from John 15 in this post, which I really love: [1978 concert video] Keith Green debunked LUTHER’S FALSE SALVATION DOCTRINE that’s now MAINSTREAM in America. Let’s get it right!
      It just takes a small group of us to get it right. Will you be a pioneer of this move? Will you help do your part, be who you are supposed to be (those of you who are called), a crucially important part of the body?
      Sometimes I feel like I’m a lone voice crying in the wilderness. Jesus’ desire for ONE to happen (John 17) can only happen when a group of us get the greatest 2 commandments operating fully enough in our lives.
      That’s when I’ll really be happy. That’s when the world will know (according to John 17). That’s when we can relax. Then it’s up to them to accept or reject.
      But why would anyone want to be a ‘Christian’ now, with what they see that the ‘church’ is.
      We can be different. We can live Biblically, which means being led by the Holy Spirit. We can take the red pill and research what is really going on.
      What happened with 9/11 anyway? Did the globalists use that to bring about our own demise, nationally? Do you know that the towers had to reach at least 5,000 degrees Fahrenheit to melt what was melted, and jet fuel and paper fires could have only reached about 1,500 degrees?
      Architect Richard Gage on 9/11 truth: “98% of those who watch this presentation end up agreeing with us…. We really only get called conspiracy theorists and kooks by those who are UNWILLING TO LOOK at the evidence.”
      This and 112 other posts on 9/11 truth are at my ToBeFree site. The only way that Americans won’t find out what really happened is if they aren’t allowed to see the actual evidence — or that they’ll be intimidated and mocked away from looking at the evidence.
      I believe the same thing is true about who goes to heaven. I don’t know anyone who has carefully read Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way who still fully believes the commonly taught theory.
      Had enough people honestly investigated what happened on 9/11, we’d probably still have great hope for America to survive. But it’s too late now, I believe: ‘Let Us Be ONE’ Prophecy Continues 10/8/08: “It’s TOO LATE to REVERSE what’s been done for MY MEN have been REJECTED … Now is the Time to OVERCOME and GET RIGHT With ALL … FREEeeeeeeeeeeeee———DOM at last … Your HEART will SWELL with LOVE and it will be EASY to REMAIN In Me when others are On The BOAT With You”
      But it’s not too late for us to get our salvation doctrine (and the others) figured out. OSAS is a broken cistern that will not hold the water of the Holy Spirit. “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”
      Do we want to live our final years apart from Him or fully in Him?
      What we do now will determine not only how well we will do in these last days, but it will determine our eternal destiny.
      What could be more important, other than knowing that being pioneers of this move will help billions be able to more clearly decide which path they will also choose.
      It’s not just about us. We must think about them too — which is normal Christianity according to the 2nd greatest commandment.
      Sincerely,
      Jeff Fenske
      Anchorage, Alaska

  2. Husband, Father of 5

    Jeff,
    I’m so concerned about REALLY being saved that I’ve twisted myself almost into insanity–literally. I’ve spent hundreds of hours reading, searching, begging God to show me the truth. I’ve come to the conclusion that without the Spirit, no one can know if they are on their way to heaven. I’m wondering if you can pray for me and my family to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. I’ve noticed that many of the links to your website involve the supernatural involvement of the Holy Spirit. I ask that you please call out to God on behalf of the Howard family that we may receive clear guidance from the Lord just as you and others receive.
    With gratitude,
    Joshua

    1. Jeff Fenske

      Joshua,
      Thanks for determining to know for sure. And thanks for being an example to others to do the same! This is normal. It’s hard for me to comprehend why so many are believing the lie that everything is okay when they don’t feel okay.
      However, there is another factor why people don’t feel okay. Most Christians are cursed, which I have an entire category for. And many ‘Christians’ are actually doing the James-3 cursing. And when Christians are hearing more than one voice (only one can be the Holy Spirit), what can be done?
      In the early ’80s, I actually used to bring my microcassette recorder into Prayer and Praise, in Bible School. During worship, I could easily hear just that One Voice. I still think this is a great idea for churches to do: worship and then listen, recording somehow what we hear.
      To my knowledge, I don’t hear more than one voice anymore, and I don’t seem to get demonic dreams anymore either. I did get a dream last night where a guy smashed me through a wall, though. I prayed for whoever it was after I woke up too. I didn’t recognize the person. I believe that dream was from God so I could pray.
      Anyway, when you talk about the gift of the Holy Spirit, are you referring to praying in tongues? I personally don’t believe that one has to pray in tongues to receive the Holy Spirit, but praying in tongues really is one of the most misunderstood and underutilized gifts. It’s so crucially important for dealing with demonic spirits.
      Have you seen this: I’ve finally shared much of what I know about and what can be done through the TREMENDOUS and mostly misunderstood and underused gift of tongues. A reader thankfully put me over the edge : )
      I say:

      It’s all related to this part of the Let Us Be ONE prophecy: A Gift that Will Set Many Free! (A Death Warrant is Out for Your Souls)

      And in this, I share my personal experience:

      By the way, I’m confident that I’d be dead now had I not known how to pray in tongues and taught a friend of mine, also. And many others would be dead (not just sick) if we didn’t pray in tongues for people.

      With me, when I was in high school, I heard about tongues and then studied it in the Bible. I had an idea that the Christian life would be a hard walk, and I figured I needed everything I could get to succeed in it. So I pursued this gift. I spoke in tongues for the first time at a ministry in Minneapolis called Soul’s Harbor. I spoke the words non-stop while others were praying with me and laying hands on me. But later that night, all by myself in the car, I thought “I’m not sure that was it.” Doubts plagued my thinking and I didn’t do it again until I started attending Abbott Loop Christian Center (now Abbott Loop Community Church) in Anchorage, Alaska. There, Harold House taught me that God will put the words in my mouth, but I have to speak them. It’s that simple.

      And that’s all I needed to get me back on track and in gear….

      I also go into the biblical basis for speaking in tongues, which the last chapter of Mark says is a sign that will follow those who believe. And I demystify what Paul said in 1 Corinthians about speaking in tongues.
      It really is easy to do for born-again Christians. The only hard part is believing that it could be this simple, doubting that this is really the real thing.
      If I can help in any way, please let me know.
      Thanks again for sharing your example-for-many comment!
      May we have life and live in Love, Himself, forever, experientially!!!
      Jesus didn’t major on the role of the Holy Spirit in John 14-16 for nothing!
      “You’re on the right track,” I believe I just heard.

      •••

      I should add these words from Jude:

      17 But you, beloved, remember the words which have been spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ. 18 They said to you that “In the last time there will be mockers, walking after their own ungodly lusts.” 19 These are they who cause divisions, and are sensual, not having the Spirit. 20 But you, beloved, keep building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit. 21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life. 22 On some have compassion, making a distinction, 23 and some save, snatching them out of the fire with fear, hating even the clothing stained by the flesh.

      In these so evil days, it’s crucially important for every Christian to pray in tongues to be free!
      Jeff : )

  3. Husband, Father of 5

    Thanks Jeff for your reply, and for your encouraging words.
    Over the past year and a half, my search has not provided me any comfort that I’m on the right track. So many voices, now empowered by the internet, speak about various visions and varieties of doctrines that believers must embrace in order to be saved, that I’ve become confused and broken. I am truly a terrified seeker. The strong doctrinal statements on every side of a subject (to tithe, not to tithe, sabbath observance, community of goods, pacifism, early church essentials, divorce and remarriage, etc….) have literally broken my ability to identify truth. I’ve been turned in so many different directions as I’ve begged God for help, that I am lost and discouraged.
    Jeff, I NEED THE HOLY GHOST. I’m married and have 5 children for whom I am responsible to keep out of hell. My wife and I are in great need of baptism of the Holy Ghost. Can you help us…really help us?
    If you REALLY hear from God, can you ask Him to speak to us as he has spoken to you. That way, we will know your prophesies are from God.
    Jeff, your prophesies have terrified me, and yet I believe that if they are true, that God can confirm your visions in us so we can repent. Please help us, Jeff. I’m loosing my mind trying to determine which of the DOZENS of credible visionaries like you is telling the truth. I am terrified of my family and me perishing into hell. WE NEED GOD TO SPEAK TO US!!!! Please ask Him to help us.
    Sincerely,
    Joshua

    1. Jeff Fenske

      Wow! Okay. I’m understanding your situation better. You didn’t mention speaking in tongues, so when you refer to the baptism of the Holy Ghost you’re probably not referring to tongues. It does sound like tongues could help you a lot, anyway, if you use the gift enough. Praying in tongues helps people get freed up so they can hear God’s still small voice more easily.
      But I’ll leave that aside and assume you don’t want to go there.
      My guess is that God already wants to speak to you and has been, but you haven’t been able to distinguish His voice from the others. If I’m awake and hear something that I didn’t generate myself, I know it’s God. It’s that easy. But it wasn’t always that way.
      I mentioned listening to God during the Bible School’s worship time. I do recommend that still. The problem is to find a body of believers that is really worshiping in Spirit and in truth enough so the demons flee because God’s presence is so thick that they have to. This isn’t happening that much in America these days in the “I’m okay; you’re okay” (when hardly anyone really is okay) churches.
      When real revival comes it will be easy to find God. But what do we do in the meantime?
      I used to also go places for a few days and pray and fast and worship by myself. And that’s all I would do. And I would write down what I would hear or see.
      Jesus often went to lonely places to spend time with His Father, and we’re supposed to walk like He walked. He was our example.
      Here’s the principle that you can totally count on: “Draw near to Me and I’ll draw near to You.”
      I’m wondering about your mention of divorce and remarriage. You absolutely don’t have to say anything in response, but part of the Draw near to Me and I’ll draw near to You” thing is that we need to be willing to do whatever He wants. He won’t force His will on us. If we’re doing something we shouldn’t be, or not doing something we should, and we’re not fully open to hearing from God what He wants, then we can be actively blocking our communication with the infinitely Wise One. Jesus prayed, “not My will but Thine be done.”
      Okay, have you seen this? This may directly help you, and is a chapter from my Let Us Be ONE prophesy. I’ll leave the bolding as it is:

      There Should Only Be One Voice

      Let’s pray: lead us not into temptation, but fill us with wine—the milk of iniquity far from us, leaving it behind, where it belongs, in the garbage. Throw it out, never to see it again. If you don’t it will create havoc. You’ll feel it in your heart, giving you life, but yukky. It’s a substitute for the real thing. Learn to distinguish what is right from what is wrong. Learn the ways of God, so you can minister full of pride no more. Then life will come.

      Few find it; many let go way too soon. It takes time to grow up. Be My people. Set apart. A new wine that tastes good to all who watch. Independent no longer, but listening to Me as you pray. Feel My love give you life. And be not afraid. Rest in Me, knowing what to do, because you watched and prayed, learning to hear My voice teach you about little things as you pray. I want to tell you so much, but you are not listening. Few do. There are so many yukky things inside giving contrary orders, confusing My bride.

      There should only be one voice, that should lead you into all truth. The others are from another source, and they confuse: “get rid of the Holy Ghost; don’t listen to that voice.” They remain inside, taunting, teaching iniquity, causing confusion, because My body is weak, giving into temptation.

      Learn to rest in Me. There is no other. No one can give life. It’s all death. All these other voices have evil intent, but they sound good. They are deceptive. Few follow and listen to the One that remains once holiness happens from deep inside. This is My goal for you, to become clean deep within, where it counts. Then everything you say will be according to My will.

      And there is this line: “Few find it; many let go way too soon. It takes time….” Everything may not all happen as fast as you’d like, but the more you draw near to God the more He’ll draw near to you. So you can speed up the process.
      Regarding the doctrinal confusion with the doctrines you mentioned: I personally like to look at issues from many perspectives. You’ll see me quoting others, including people who’ve had specific insight. I like to study what others have to say, and pay attention to my dreams and words from God over time. Everything should line up, once we find what is true. And then I’m willing to step out further with it, if it differs from what is mainstream.
      And based upon what the Bible said would be true in the last days: how the deception will be great, and that the love of most will grow cold — it isn’t surprising that false doctrine would prevail. So according to the Bible, what is mainstream should be highly suspect, especially when these doctrines bear bad fruit, which is so evident.
      And by the way, I’ve said this elsewhere on my sites that I’m not a pacifist. I believe in self-defense. But none of these wars have been. And it seems like the globalists are pushing for an attack on Iran not to defend Israel, but for regime change — so they can put in a puppet leader who will go along with the one-world government.
      I believe in helping Israel, and helping Israel is helping them deal ethically with their enemies. And so often they do just the opposite and the ‘Christians’ in America fully support their immoral and even wickedly unforgiving behavior. If one Israeli dies, they’ll kill hundreds. But we do the same thing. Our foreign policy is despicable. The whole world knows it, and the ‘Christians’ support all of these ungodly things we’re doing in the name of God and country. And it just saddens God’s heart so badly.
      And we finance Israel’s atrocities in which they use our weaponry….
      Anyway, some ‘Christians’ don’t think we have to be moral when it comes to war. Somehow they think the Sermon on the Mount doesn’t apply when the entire country is involved. So that’s where I am. I’m not a pacifist, and I am a moralist. We need to treat others like we would want them to treat us, no matter what their religion or skin color. [Joshua, I’m writing this out clearly in case others are reading who haven’t read what I’ve written on this subject. I deal with these issues and many more at my other site, in case you or others haven’t been there.]
      The other thing before I close is look at the arguments. Once saved, always saved has been soundly refuted for years. And no one can refute what I’ve written on the subject. Anyone is welcome to show this to any professor, pastor, whoever. If they can disprove what I’ve put together then that shows I’m not on the right track. But if they’re even afraid to look at the scriptures, what does that tell you? Why can’t anyone refute this? I’m just teaching what they taught in the early church — before the whole thing fell apart doctrinally and spiritually.
      Tithing is another one that is so easy to refute. And then look at why so many leaders still push it, often via James-3 curses (prayers — which I cover here). When people get demons, it’s often from people’s “prayers” that really are curses that Satan answers, not God.
      And these are the demons that confuse people within, pushing them to conform to false doctrine — loudly bucking when there is truth. It’s in the prophecy above.
      We are a fallen society. The world is corrupt and the ‘church’ is almost totally also. And this can only happen when false doctrine prevails.
      Well, that’s the best I can do based upon what you said. I think you’re on the right track wanting to hear from God directly. I encourage you to jump fully into the second list in Galatians 5: “those who are Christ’s….” And jump fully out of the first list: those who will not inherit the kingdom.
      Draw near to Him and He will draw near to you. He wants to draw near to all of us. It’s up to us. And the more there are of us who do it the easier it will be, to where eventually real Christianity will happen at a group level; God will show up; and “then the world will know.” (Jesus’ heart-cry for us in John 17)
      Power to the peaceful!
      Jeff : )

  4. Anonymous

    Thanks, Jeff for your explanation above.
    I’ve been intrigued by many of the authors your website links too. I’ve spent the last several days researching men such Howard Pittman, the Baptist pastor who had an NDE. I mention Baptist because this highlights the fearful complexity of knowing who to listed to. Rev. Pittman, according to his account of his NDE, was punished as a son, not eternal punishment. This in spite of the fact that he was a Baptist (which I assume means he communicated the OSAS doctrine–to the damnation of others). Other NDE experiences, such as those of Mary K. Baxter, indicate there is a place of suffering for those who do not tithe. Do you see why I am so FEARFULLY confused? Are you right, or are they.
    I DO NOT doubt your sincerity, but I am fearful for my soul and the souls of my wife and children. Jeff, could you help me understand whose visions and revelations are correct. I am really searching, and I will carefully read your input. Thanks!
    With thanks,
    Joshua

    1. Husband, Father of 5

      Didn’t intend to be anonymous–just forgot to input my info.
      I’ve been intrigued by many of the authors your website links too. I’ve spent the last several days researching men such Howard Pittman, the Baptist pastor who had an NDE. I mention Baptist because this highlights the fearful complexity of knowing who to listed to. Rev. Pittman, according to his account of his NDE, was punished as a son, not eternal punishment. This in spite of the fact that he was a Baptist (which I assume means he communicated the OSAS doctrine–to the damnation of others). Other NDE experiences, such as those of Mary K. Baxter, indicate there is a place of suffering for those who do not tithe. Do you see why I am so FEARFULLY confused? Are you right, or are they.
      I DO NOT doubt your sincerity, but I am fearful for my soul and the souls of my wife and children. Jeff, could you help me understand whose visions and revelations are correct. I am really searching, and I will carefully read your input. Thanks!
      With thanks,
      Joshua

      1. Jeff Fenske

        my theory, the bottom line here: we can’t trust people who have the root of all evil in them.
        I absolutely do think it is wise to look at doctrines from multiple perspectives, including what others claim to have experienced.
        Joshua,
        These are very good questions, sir. God bless you for digging and trying to sort this out. I’ve been thinking about how to explain this as briefly as possible. I’ll do my best, but there are so many factors involved that I need to cover some ground, especially for those who read this who aren’t as familiar with my work.
        First and foremost, when studying doctrines, I want to know what the Bible really says. That’s what I did with tithing, which I laid out in The Day that Tithing Ended — To Now Be Led By the Holy Spirit. I actually got the dream and the prophecy Tithing or the Carriage Driver? much later — and the Russel Kelly analysis Russell Earl Kelly, Ph.D.: Tithing is Not a Christian Doctrine came even more recent in my truth journey.
        I personally think the Russel Kelly presentation is by itself a slam-dunk, proving that tithing does not belong in the new covenant, and it wasn’t even practised in the old covenant the way most pro-tithing pastors teach it.
        I think the main reason tithing is still accepted is because so few pastors and even lay people will watch look at the evidence, especially by watching his presentation.
        It’s just like 9/11, which I go into at length at my other main site, ToBeFree. Here is a prime example: Architect Richard Gage on 9/11 truth: “98% of those who watch this presentation end up agreeing with us…. We really only get called conspiracy theorists and kooks by those who are UNWILLING TO LOOK at the evidence.”
        Then the question can be asked why are people so unwilling to look at the evidence, both for tithing and 9/11. I have hundreds of Media Bias Exposed posts at ToBeFree. People are brainwashed by the media. There is almost a total blackout on 9/11 truth. And they label anyone who questions the official story as unpatriotic and a pinhead.
        In the evangelical churches that teach tithing, if I was in a church and told people about what the Bible really says about tithing I’d be labeled as divisive, and probably James-3 cursed from their hearts.
        Tithing is such a tough issue because it’s in the love of money category. It involves the root of all evil. So people (pastors included) can get really emotional about this subject if they have this demonic entity (a religious spirit) driving them.
        And many pastors and attendees think that if the tithing doctrine falls, the money dries up and the doors close.
        This is actually probably true, because most churches are spiritually almost dead largely because of the tithing doctrine, which encourages people to follow the law in this crucial love-of-money area instead of to be led by the Holy Spirit, determining in our hearts what to do, as Paul said.
        And the reality is that these churches should no longer exist unless they repent and turn to God, so that He is their head.
        I started writing this last night regarding the strong emotions that can be involved here:
        Have you ever seen a debate at a university between a evolutionist professor and a creationist? I don’t think I’ve ever seen that much public anger over something religious except maybe in Jerusalem, decades ago. Students and faculty get almost hostile. Their brains and reasoning go out the window.
        Well, tithing can be that way too. I’ve been trying to understand how the love of money can be the root of all evil, because not all evil seems to be tied to the love of money. At this point, I’m thinking that when one has the love of money, one then has the root of all evil — and this demon drives the person to do all sorts of evil to help satiate the love-of-money appetite.
        And this often includes lying, and Rev. 21 says all liars will go to the Lake of Fire, so pushing tithing can definitely be a salvation issue. Tithing drives disobedience and draws people away from being led by the Holy Spirit. And many who push tithing strongly pray that people accept this and do this. But because tithing isn’t a Christian doctrine, they are James-3 cursing religious spirits on the people. These are often demon driven prayers that demons answer, not God. This is DANGEROUS!!!
        I wrote this last night as well:
        The number one key in this whole money thing is to not have the root of all evil in us. We should be open to God as to what to do with our money. ‘Christians’ do all sorts of things for money, especially pastors. We don’t ever want to be love-of-money driven.
        I remember a senior pastor, decades ago pounding the pulpit, quoting Malachi: “Don’t you dare rob God of your tithes and offerings!” He had no business even preaching, for he wasn’t resting. He was love-of-money driven. And these same ‘Christian’ leaders really do pray (James-3 curse) people to be compelled to give them money. They love tithing, because it’s a guaranteed income whether they’re right with God and people or not.
        These leaders don’t teach the people to get right with those they’ve hurt because the pastors themselves don’t get right with those they’ve hurt.
        They don’t teach people to be Spirit led because they themselves aren’t Spirit led. They teach people to be under the law instead.
        Tithing is one of the most diabolic doctrines there is because it undermines the role of the Holy Spirit in our lives in this key love-of-money area. So it then often affects many areas. Hardly any ‘Christians’ are Spirit led, these days. Which is why ‘worship’ is so dead in most churches too.
        There is an associated, also diabolical doctrine that teaches that ‘Christians’ can’t have evil spirits inside of them, affecting them. And oh boy do the demons and the Devil like this one. Demons then can drive pastors to push tithing, while the pastors think they are Spirit driven. But the Holy Spirit doesn’t drive at all. He entreats.
        Most pastors aren’t resting because most pastors are demon driven, not Holy Spirit driven, and this is what makes people fearful if they don’t tithe, I believe. I wrote this also last night:

        Many give because of the guilt they feel if they don’t, which is often powered by the religious spirits that were prayed into them.

        Perhaps it’s hard to understand how teaching the law in the new covenant affects people if we don’t understand how demons are used to reinforce false teaching, doctrines of demons.
        If leaders are love-of-money driven they’re disqualified from leading, because “an overseer must be blameless,” Paul said. But love-of-money driven people have the root of all evil in them. They’re not even close to being qualified to lead people, let alone accept their money.
        So they’ll put trips on people which evil spirits will enforce (James-3 cursing), and this happens a lot. Also, many, if not most pastors also keep their power by praying against those who they think would threaten their power.
        This is one reason why I think it’s wonderful to pray in tongues. We can pray against these evil spirits, and we can even pray for those putting the curses on us. And if you get tongues, then you know there really was a curse. You can tell who is cursing you this way. It’s like science. It’s foolproof. Praying in tongues is one of the main keys to getting and staying free — and overcoming fear (demons of fear).
        There is the fear of God and then — there are demons of fear.
        We should fear if we’re willfully lusting, lying, hating, etc. — if we’re not right with God and people. That is healthy fear, and it’s maybe lower down in the body. I haven’t thought about that much. But the fear from men that is demon driven, it feels different. It incapacitates. It’s probably good to be able to distinguish between the two.
        If you pray in tongues, you can pray against the source of the fear and if you get prayer language there is something to pray for regarding this, and the fear will probably totally go as well — unless there are additional sources. And by praying this way, you’re helping the spiritual bully, the James-3 curser as well. Because they’re going to hell. We can help them see the light by praying for them. This is a big deal. I’m surprised that more people aren’t interested in learning how to pray this way. It baffles me, actually.
        As long as we don’t have the love of money we don’t have to worry about money being a salvation problem. Paul said to determine in our hearts what to give. What is our non-demon-driven heart telling us?
        If it’s not at peace (and I’m talking deep down inside, literally in the heart, that is more than a pump, and probably in the gut too, which also has brainlike tissue. I have posts on this). We need to find this place of rest, centeredness, being centered in God.
        I’m pointing out this love-of-money demon-driven mechanism for another reason. Those who have encounters with God, claiming that God told them we should tithe, can be love-of-money demon driven themselves. And this can taint their experience. People who are love-of-money driven, who have the root of all evil active within can’t be fully trusted — shouldn’t be fully trusted.
        Have you ever heard someone prophecy something that made sense, and then one or two lines didn’t sound right at all?
        A person can hear from God and then also hear from a demon. There should only be one voice.
        How many tithing sermonettes have you heard in your lifetime? Many church goers have heard hundreds and even thousands. How many times do you think people have prayed that you would tithe to them or to their church? I’ve probably heard hundreds of such messages. Many leaders want the people to feel guilty if the people don’t automatically give them 10% of their gross income, whether these leaders are right with God and people or not. These men (and women) have love-of-money demons in them. They’re demon driven, and most of them probably have lying spirits too. They know how ot say the right things, but aren’t honest about what is really going on in their own hearts. They shouldn’t get a cent. They’re disqualified to lead. Is it possible that these leaders are actually deceived? Maybe.
        So I think the average church attendee should pray in tongues for those who have or are cursing them with false doctrine. Then we can start from ground zero and investigate these issues without being demonically fear driven. These people are sick. They’re demon infested. We need to love them, but we shouldn’t honor them as legitimate leaders. They’re actually destroying the kingdom. They interfere with what God wants to do. And I still get cursed by them every single day, to tell you the truth.
        There are some leaders who claim to have visions, dreams, and words about doctrines. What is their fruit. Are they love of money driven? Are they women who are disobediently trying to lead men from pulpits when Paul said not to?
        And by the way, pastor’s wives can curse people too. They can even control their husband pastor.
        There is one lady (NOT Mary Kathryn Baxter) who wrote a book about going to heaven. She claims that non-tithers won’t go to heaven. I was told to read her book, but when I read this, I bolted, knowing that something is very fishy with this ministry. She said she was told this when she was in heaven.

        http://www.crazymalc.co.nz/2007/Sep/16Sep/16Sep.htm

        [Jesus said]Any Christian who doesn’t tithe will not be blessed because they love money more than My Word. Those who love money more than My Word will never see My Kingdom.” (Page 127)

        The Lord is very unhappy with those who are not tithing. (See Malachi 3:8-10). The Lord showed me and told me clearly that whoever doesn’t tithe will not see His face because they love money more than Him.

        What she said Jesus told her doesn’t even make sense in many cases. Most churches are leading people away from being truly in Christ. The Lord doesn’t want most people to tithe or give at all to churches that actually teach doctrines that turn people away from being in Christ. Tithing is in a sense anti-Christ, and those who smell a rat in the churches wisely will not give them money, because they are funding a mind-control anti-being-in-Christ assembly that basically says “I’m okay; you’re okay” as long as you are a faithful tither, etc..
        It may be true that those who love money more than God’s word will not enter heaven, but this isn’t the main reason why many people don’t tithe. And Jesus knows that. He knows people’s hearts. He can’t be buffaloed, like many of the readers of this lady’s book, I believe. “This is deception.”
        I also found this online:

        http://www.unleavenedbreadministries.org/?page=helldemons

        Question: It was shared that in one revelation many children spoke of their revelations of going to hell where they saw the lost tormented by demons. However, one of them prophesied that hell is filled with people who weren’t faithful tithers. I was told this made the whole thing wrong because the Bible doesn’t teach that they are tormented by demons there.

        Answer: The fact that one child among them, who may have had a religious spirit, falsely prophesied of the tithe does not make the rest of their witnesses of hell false any more than one person’s false prophesy in any assembly makes everyone else’s prophecy false. The devil often tries to sneak his lies in. And sometimes he does this to discredit the truth too. We must rightly divide the Word everywhere and not condemn the righteous.

        You mentioned Mary Kathryn Baxter.

        “Other NDE experiences, such as those of Mary K. Baxter, indicate there is a place of suffering for those who do not tithe.”

        I’m not aware of where she said this. Do you have the actual quote? I like Mary, and studied her experiences in depth many years ago, maybe even 20. I listened to her entire multiple cassette set in which she shared her experiences, etc.; though, I never did fully read her book.
        I’ve also seen her in person and spoke with her. I believe she is the real deal. She is a broken woman (in a good way, broken hearted for the lost and tormented).

        3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.

        4 Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

        I found her experiences to be doctrinally correct. The disobedient pastors in hell got the worst punishment, by the way, pastors!!
        If she said something about non-tithers going to hell, I’d like to hear what she said.
        As for Mary, if she did indeed say this, it’s possible that she just said ‘tithing’ instead of ‘giving’ too. She experienced many things during every visit, and then she wrote them down later. Who knows?
        Or maybe she had such strong tithing teaching that she could only see things through pro-tithing eyes.
        Also, Mary was emotionally freaked out for years after the experience. Maybe she didn’t write things down right away and guessed at some of what she did write down. Maybe she had the very common tithing religious spirit and it influenced her to write this.
        I don’t know, but I like Mary. I haven’t seen or heard from her in many years. But what I’ve seen is that this lady is genuine in her motive. But that doesn’t mean that everything she says is necessarily true.
        She at least did preach in many churches. Do you think that maybe she got cursed. And maybe she stepped over into an area that Paul said women are not supposed to be stepping into. It’s one thing to share one’s testimony, but I’ve seen her go beyond that. And do you think that maybe there were women in ‘churches’ who prayed (James-3 cursed) that Mary would do this?
        Mary may have gone out from the safety of her covering into the lion’s den.
        One of the biggest problems in the ‘church,’ today, is that women are usurping men’s authority, something that Paul directly forbid. And there is no doubt in my mind that they didn’t at least try to influence Mary to do and maybe even teach things that weren’t totally balanced — because this is so common in the American churches.
        Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft. And rebellious women have been trying to hijack the church, whimp out the word of God. They have to destroy Paul’s teaching on the role of women in the church just to get started. They James-3 curse pastors who don’t let them control them. They’re a big part of what is keeping real Christianity from happening.
        I haven’t said much about this (mainly only in one place until also here), partly because it isn’t in my “Let Us Be ONE” prophesy, and partly because I didn’t want to alienate people unnecessarily.
        This is such a delicate issue. It’s easy for women to think that Paul didn’t appreciate women as much as men, and that maybe I don’t also. But they don’t realize that this is God’s perspective, and it’s for their own good. Women are as totally awesome as men, but we definitely are wired differently and have different roles based upon how we’re made.
        Science now backs this 100%; though, it’s hard for the studies to even get out because of the bias against this Biblical conclusion.
        So basically, tithing is such a hot button issue because of the reasons I mention. Tithing is demonically driven, the-root-of-all-evil driven. It has no biblical basis in the new covenant church.
        By the way, if you’re still not convinced that the law isn’t superseded by the Spirit in the new covenant, post-Pentecost church, please look at the comments in Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way, starting at about comment #20.
        If you read these comments I think you’ll see that there is no basis at all for us to be following the law, now that we’re to be led by the Spirit. Paul is consistently clear. A reader throws his follow-the-law-bondage statements at us and Adrian and I refute every single one through what the Bible so clearly says.
        I think the Hebrew roots movement is somewhat popular because many realize that what they’re being taught isn’t true enough. People are looking for answers, and the demons are waiting to replace one doctrine of demons with another; though, the real thing has been in front of us all along.
        I’ll continue later in answering your Howard Pittman part of your question.
        God bless, and keep searching, worshiping in Spirit and in truth!
        Jeff Fenske : )

      2. Jeff Fenske

        To Joshua and everyone who is interested in getting revival going, real relationship with God and each other,
        Sorry for taking so long for part 2. This was supposed to be the easy part, but I decided I’d share part of my own true story with tithing.
        About two decades ago, I was attending a church that required tithing in order for a member to actually be in good standing with the leadership. They actually checked the tithe records to see how they would treat each individual. It was a very controlling church, part of what has become known as the shepherding movement.
        Though I really haven’t thought much about this for years, there are parts of the shepherding movement that I really like still, but there was this controlling, lording over, power-over aspect that was very destructive. Unfortunately, I think shepherding churches threw out the baby with the bathwater. Now people just drift; relationships are mainly shallow. Personal discipleship and mentoring is a rare thing.
        Leadership should be power-under, not power-over, but there still should be leadership. We should have recovered by now into healthy shepherding experiences. But now there is no shepherding, for the most part. And America has now significantly fallen during this no-shepherding time.
        I think what happened is that many people were hurt by overbearing leaders. This wouldn’t be such a big deal still today had the leaders gotten right with those they hurt. But many didn’t fully get right. Actually, from what I saw personally, hardly any of the leaders got fully right — and some are still leading today!!!
        I know one key leader who publicly quoted Paul as justification for people not to approach him or other leaders in attempts to get the leaders to reconcile and apologize. He quoted Paul in Philippians 3:

        12 Not that I have already obtained, or am already made perfect; but I press on, if it is so that I may take hold of that for which also I was taken hold of by Christ Jesus. 13 Brothers, I don’t regard myself as yet having taken hold, but one thing I do. Forgetting the things which are behind, and stretching forward to the things which are before, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

        Sadly, in his faulty interpretation of what Paul meant by forgetting the things which are behind in order to press on, this leader was totally ignoring these key texts which show that Paul wasn’t using this forward thinking to dismiss his responsibility to get right with those he hurt (especially, I would think, those he hurt after he was born-again).
        Paul said this:

        Acts 23:1
        Then Paul, looking earnestly at the council, said, “Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day.”

        Acts 24:16
        This being so, I myself always strive to have a conscience without offense toward God and men.

        So for Paul, pressing on in Philippians included always striving to make sure his relationships were right with people!
        Since the early ’80s, I had been trying to figure out why God couldn’t move the way He wanted to during regular church services. I was trying to figure out why-not-revival way back then. I had seen glimpses of what should happen in other meetings, especially in Bible school. So when God and others showed me (Isaiah 59:3) what had happened at our church, the many people who were terribly hurt, I wanted to help fix the problem. That’s what happens in healthy families when something has gone bad, right?
        I don’t think it’s appropriate to say much more here, but this is the context in which I heard two very clear words from God on tithing.
        When I found out how badly so many people were hurt, I stopped tithing, totally. I had already been studying the subject, and was starting to see that old-covenant tithing wasn’t new-covenant Biblical, but I really didn’t have any trouble giving 10% of my pre-tax income to a church I really loved. But when I found saw the trail of devastation…!
        So I hadn’t been giving any money at all for a number of weeks. There is no way I would help finance serious dysfunction. But I was also having meetings with a certain leader, trying to help this thing get fixed so we could have real Christianity again, the real thing. But I wasn’t thinking of how it looked to them when I stopped giving financially, and how this would affect the talks I was having with this leader, because as I said above, the leaders checked our tithe records.
        Some people may wonder why I was attending such a controlling church in the first place. Well there was a lot of good that went on to. And I gravitated towards the good leaders and somewhat ignored the leaders who weren’t a blessing to me. I also really had no idea at that time as to how bad the bad really was because certain leaders really stressed that accusations towards an elder was something to not discuss. Bad, bad, bad!
        So the people who were hurt wouldn’t discuss their situations with me until I started actively researching what had happened, which was after I heard “Isaiah 59:3” from God. And that’s when I stopped tithing.
        So I’m not going to say what happened in this public forum, other than if things would have really worked out we would have seen revival many years ago. And I really think we could have saved our nation as well. Now, I think we are left with just being able to save ourselves and to get real revival going.
        So I totally stopped giving money, cold turkey. And I heard God say: “give $100 to the hypocrites, for they need to know that you care.” I’m almost positive that is an exact quote. I don’t have a great memory for details, but what I heard I wrote down, and I thought a lot about it later.
        So by God calling the leaders “hypocrites,” He was telling me that these men weren’t currently qualified to get any money, but I should give them something anyway because otherwise they won’t think that I really care. And I realized later that the door probably would have been shut to any further discussions with this leader to try to problem solve this situation.
        In regards to whether we should tithe or not, the main point in writing this, I hadn’t given even one penny for a number of weeks, and I was making a good wage back then. If God wanted me to tithe, the amount would have been much higher.
        But I still didn’t give any money. I balked. I was thinking more of their devastation, the trail of tears, than just doing what God said to do.
        Then, a few weeks later, God spoke to me again, but this time He told me to give them $150. So the amount He told me this time was only $50 higher than the previous amount, which again was a lot less than what 10% would have been.
        This time, I wrote them a check, and maybe this one act of obedience to the Holy Spirit (not the law of tithing) kept the door to his office open until it was shut for a different reason.
        If more people would have done what I did (stopped tithing and gave only what I believed I should), then the leaders would have had to get right with those who were hurt or the church doors would have had to close for lack of funds.
        This is how it should be. “But the dysfunction continues,” I believe I heard God say. So I said it. To a significant degree, revival didn’t happen because the money kept coming in no matter what the leaders did.
        Tithing perpetuates deadness because ‘church’ leaders get paid no matter what they do or don’t do. And tithing discourages the leaders from teaching the people to be led by the Holy Spirit to know how much to give, the way it should be.
        So TITHING ROBS GOD!
        Perhaps you’ve heard preachers loosely quote Malachi 3:8 from the pulpit: “Don’t you dare rob God of your tithes and offerings!” Well, I’ve been thinking lately that the microphone should be pointed at the leaders who still teach tithing:

        “Don’t you dare rob God of the relationships that are due Him!”
        “Suffer not the little ones to come to Me,” Jesus said.
        Church leaders are keeping people in an old covenant relationship with God, Himself by teaching people to obey the law in this key “love of money” issue. “This is serious!” If people aren’t taught to be led by the Holy Spirit when it comes to money — if they’re kept from God in this “root of all evil,” demonic stronghold issue, how are they going to be able to hear God regularly for other things?
        Or consider this:
        Where is the incentive for leaders to teach the people to hear from God when most leaders don’t really want the people to hear from God as to whether they should be given money or not.
        In reality, false leaders don’t want Godly scrutiny from the people they think they have a right to lead. They just want the money so they can keep leading no matter what
        Leaders who teach that people should tithe to them think they have a right to get 10% of the people’s money just because they are already leaders.
        It’s a pretty good gig (or pretty bad). This would be like politicians who would no longer need to run for office. They would get paid forever by the citizens without condition. This is sick, but this would be a politician’s dream.
        And it’s even more sick when it happens in the church.
        So to pastors who still teach tithing: don’t you dare rob God of the relationships that are due Him! You are grieving the Holy Spirit by keeping the people far away from Him. And you are destroying this country in the process. For people who are led by the Holy Spirit would have elected Ron Paul (for example. I had to throw that one in there). People who are led by the Holy Spirit wouldn’t have supported Bush’s reverse-Christian-war reaction to 9/11 (which was what the globalists wanted all along. Google PNAC).
        Pastors, your job is to teach the people how to abide in Christ, which is Christianity according to John 15, Romans 8, etc., which especially includes teaching them how to hear from and be led by the Holy Spirit. But you aren’t even led by the Holy Spirit and the New Testament enough to stop teaching tithing and to teach this concept of abiding in Christ, being led by Him???
        I think it’s possible that most teachers who still teach tithing are in active rebellion towards God regarding this. Most pastors who teach tithing today have heard the truth that what they are teaching is wrong. Few are willing to really investigate it, like in watching this video: Russell Earl Kelly, Ph.D.: Tithing is Not a Christian Doctrine, let alone reading what I wrote about it: The Day that Tithing Ended — To Now Be Led By the Holy Spirit, or being willing to read what God said through me about this important subject. I’ll include it here for convenience:

        Tithing or the Carriage Driver?

        Give sheep a rest from all those things they do. Don’t put burdens on them. Tithing is not Biblical. Tithing is from another era, before I gave My Son, before I died so you could be free. A new way, a better way has come, and it will give you life.

        Churches are dead, living for themselves. Unity has not occurred. Get up and pray. Do not faint, and I will give you life.

        Give by the Spirit’s desires. He will tell you what to do and who to minister to. The Holy Spirit is your friend. We are ONE, and We are in you, giving you life as you obey.

        Do not be afraid of My leading. The problem with many is sin. Sin separates, and sin destroys the yoke.

        The carriage must have a driver. Most drive themselves, unaware of My presence, unaware that I want to lead.

        God wants to lead us, but tithing gets in the way. Teaching tithing is sinning. Tithing separates us from God, and the leaders from God too. Tithing is largely responsible for keeping ONE from happening, “unity.” “Churches are dead.” And what is the remedy? [Obviously, Joshua, I’m not just writing this to you.]
        I keep thinking about how tithing affects God’s heart in what He said here:

        Jesus’ Heart-Cry: Let Us Be One

        Let us be one. My cry is out to you to come near. I want My people, please? May we be one. I need you to pray, to fall on your face and not give up. Press in, overcome temptation. Be not afraid to obey. I will give you life, all those who follow. You will not faint. You will grow strong when you give up the ghosts that hold you back, the sins of iniquity.

        Feel My hurt. It is great. My people have vanished from My life. I am sad, and you are lonely. There are few that remain close to Me where I can nourish their souls.

        In Me there is life. There is no other way. I in you; you in Me, where we belong—together. Let us be one, together in love….

        There is a place of holiness, where you will always be at My feet, a place of blessing. Let it come. Let it envelop you. Let it take over your pride.

        Come, My people. Let us rest. Follow no other. I am your place of security, where power dwells, power to overcome sin, pride and temptation. I have life to give.

        You are My friend. Get up and be counted among the sheep. For there is error. Life has ceased for a reason. The church is dirty, a place of filth. It is not My home. How can I dwell among an unclean people who hurt each other, who tell each other stories, who hurt from the heart those that care?

        That last line is ‘Christians’ James-3-cursing people, by the way.
        So God is hurting you all, BIG-TIME!!! Preaching tithing grieves the Holy Spirit. It’s keeping us from Him and apart from one another. Tithing is a big deal. It’s “diabolical.” I put it in quotes because I heard it now. Tithing destroys the yoke that God talks about, above. “The carriage must have a driver. Most drive themselves…, unaware that I want to lead.”
        I’ll close by repeating this. (It looks like I’ll have to answer your question about Howard Pittman in a part 3, Joshua):

        In Me there is life. There is no other way. I in you; you in Me, where we belong—together. Let us be one, together in love….

        There is a place of holiness, where you will always be at My feet, a place of blessing. Let it come. Let it envelop you. Let it take over your pride.

        Come, My people. Let us rest.

        Power to the peaceful!
        May we be ONE in Christ!
        “Then the world will know.” (John 17)
        And we’ll be so happy!
        Jeff Fenske : )

      3. Jeff Fenske

        Okay Joshua,
        Here is my part 3, my response to this part of your statement:

        I’ve been intrigued by many of the authors your website links too. I’ve spent the last several days researching men such Howard Pittman, the Baptist pastor who had an NDE. I mention Baptist because this highlights the fearful complexity of knowing who to listed to. Rev. Pittman, according to his account of his NDE, was punished as a son, not eternal punishment. This in spite of the fact that he was a Baptist (which I assume means he communicated the OSAS doctrine–to the damnation of others).

        I’m assuming you are asking why did Howard Pittman go to heaven even though he was teaching false salvation-doctrine that would even send people to Hell.
        For those interested, see: How Many Will Be in Heaven? How Many Find the WAY? Only 1 in 40 — 2.5%?!!
        I think the answer is multifaceted, but I think the most important component is found in Hebrews 10:26-39, especially in verse 26, which is one of my favorite verses of all time. I found this while reading 35 years ago. I hope this is a comfort to you.

        26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which will devour the adversaries. 28 A man who disregards Moses’ law dies without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will he be judged worthy of, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant with which he was sanctified an unholy thing, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance belongs to me,” says the Lord, “I will repay.” Again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

        32 But remember the former days, in which, after you were enlightened, you endured a great struggle with sufferings; 33 partly, being exposed to both reproaches and oppressions; and partly, becoming partakers with those who were treated so. 34 For you both had compassion on me in my chains, and joyfully accepted the plundering of your possessions, knowing that you have for yourselves a better possession and an enduring one in the heavens. 35 Therefore don’t throw away your boldness, which has a great reward. 36 For you need endurance so that, having done the will of God, you may receive the promise.

        I highlighted phrases having to do with reckless and willful disobedience. This is a person who knew what to do and willfully and knowingly disobeyed.
        1 John says if our consciences don’t condemn us, then we have faith to enter. I think it’s possible to teach once-saved-always-saved and still go to heaven. But I imagine it’s a rare thing, especially today.
        Howard Pittman was preaching 30 years ago, which was when there was still significant integrity in a number of churches. It was before internet porn and the low-cut-top epidemic swept the nation. I doubt if Howard got sucked into Charlies’ Angels. Wasn’t he a farmer? I think he was one of those simple (in a good way) country boys, pure at heart. So if he did teach OSAS (I don’t know what he taught), I would doubt that he would have pushed it like so many preachers do today, actually giving people a license to sin.
        I’m writing a post right now about a friend who has gone public with his Catholic faith. I really think he believes he’s doing the right thing, but he really is leading people astray. I think I know him well enough to say that he’s going to heaven because he’s not a willful sinner. He’s very conscientious. I consider him a great guy — worth writing a post about (actually more than one) to hopefully get on the same page in time.
        There is also a possibility that Howard wouldn’t have entered heaven. He was only at the gates. Maybe this was a warning, wake-up call for him as well, if he wasn’t right enough to enter heaven. As far as I know, he’s still alive. Perhaps someone could ask him.
        There is also this theory that I have, based upon a dream of a very Godly preacher whom I respect a lot, but whom I think does some things he shouldn’t, while thinking that he should.
        I write about this in one of my comments in the Who-Goes-To-Heaven… article. He told me of a dream he had in which there was this wall in a part of heaven in which people were behind it, really emotionally going through some stuff.
        He surmises that these people are going through this stuff before they can enter the fullness of heaven, itself. He doesn’t teach this, because he doesn’t have crystal clear scripture to back it up. But he did mention a couple of scriptures which I don’t recall.
        It didn’t occur to me at the time, but I thought later that maybe this was God warning him that this is where he would end up for a certain period of time if he didn’t stop doing something he was doing that he really thought he had the right to do.
        I think it’s possible that Christians can go to heaven having seriously sinned; though, not having known they were sinning seriously. Maybe they have to deal with some stuff up their first….
        I don’t teach this as a fact at all, but it’s something that is a real possibility. It’s possible that there is some truth to the Catholic teaching of purgatory, but it’s not like they teach it. Purgatory doesn’t fit into Hebrews 10:26-39 and many other scriptures, but this pastor’s dream could if the people going through it behind the wall hadn’t been willful sinners, sinning sins that would normally lead to death.
        God doesn’t trick us, giving us the assurance in our hearts that everything is okay with Him here on earth when it isn’t. If we feel real peace in our hearts from being clean to the degree that clean is I believe we’ll have confidence to enter heaven when we die.
        The Holy Spirit will teach us all things — if we’re teachable. Some people are bullheaded and aren’t as open to truth as they claim — but do walk in the truth that they know.
        We each have to work out our own salvation through fear and trembling, and “having done the will of God, you may receive the promise.”
        I would have to throw that in there from the above Hebrew passage, which is similar to Jesus in Matthew:
        “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”
        We should do our best to find out what that is, and if our consciences don’t condemn us on Earth, I don’t believe they will in heaven either.
        It’s willful sin, knowing that it’s sin but still deciding to do it anyway. And it’s only certain sins, which I try to explain in Who-Goes-To-Heaven….
        I hope that helps.
        May we all be ONE in Christ, actually!
        “Then the world will know,” Jesus said in John 17.
        Care for the world. It’s good to have a burden for those who don’t see the true church yet, but who would be greatly blessed once they do.
        We can be that group who convinces the world that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life, because we’ll walk like Jesus’ walked — all of our hearts right with God and each other — ONE!
        I don’t want to just serve God so I can go to heaven. I want to see real revival happen, all of us soaring in Him, so full of love and life. Why not live life to the full?
        I think it’s a biblical concept to serve God so as not to go to Hell. This is a Godly incentive. We all should love ourselves enough to make sure we’re right with Him and each other so we’re sure about our eternal future.
        But I think we can do even better than that — loving our neighbors as ourselves so we will want them to want what we really do have.
        And there is so much sickness and depression, etc. in the ‘church.’ This should not be. And I want to dedicate myself to seeing the church so close to God, collectively, that great miracles will happen regularly. We will soar in Him. All of the sick who are truly in the church will be saved.
        This cessation stuff from Augustine and others is just nonsense based upon experience:
        The HOLY Spirit wants to move through us so powerfully. It will be so much fun!

        Come on people now,
        smile on your brother,
        Everybody get together
        and try to love one another
        right now.

        I’m smiling just thinking about it.
        God bless!
        Think BIG!
        God will honor those who seek Him with their whole heart.
        The times they are a changing —

        for the better!

        (from a kingdom perspective)
        Jeff : )

  5. Husband, Father of 5

    Thanks, Jeff so much for the thoughtful explanation.
    I could have mis-spoken about Mary K. Baxter. I thought it was her who made the statement about tithing (on a TV show or in her book, etc….) I will see if I can track it down.
    As I said, I’ll read the above and pray and meditate about it. I know you are a busy guy, but if you would remember me and my family in your prayers, I would GREATLY appreciate it. I really want to have the voice of the Holy Spirit and the gift of speaking in tongues. I am searching, and frequently entreating God to guide me.
    Thanks,
    Joshua

    1. Jeff Fenske

      Joshua,
      I’ll try to write my part 2 either today or tomorrow. I think this is crucial stuff. This is getting right down to the heart of what’s going on — and the solution.
      I watched “Amish Grace,” last night. If you get a chance to watch it, I highly recommend it. It’s a powerful movie about forgiving others. I may put up a post about it.
      I’m glad you’re interested in speaking in tongues. It really is a piece of cake. You just have to speak the words that are wanting to form in your mouth. Just do whatever your mouth wants to do. But it’s totally up to you. You’re in total control, and it will only happen if you commence firing. Blast those demons.
      Like I think I share in my article on this, I wasted 5 or 6 years not using the gift that I definitely exercised when I first tried, but let doubt stop me from using it.
      Anybody who is born-again can pray in tongues. And once you do, and learn how to pray specifically for people this way, you’ll be so confident, knowing a whole lot more of what is going on in the spiritual realm.
      And the more people pray in tongues the better it is for all of us too.
      “The kingdom of heaven suffers violence and the violent take it by force” certainly applies to praying in tongues — doing spiritual warfare in tongues — blasting the unseen forces that are wiping people out.
      Jeff : )

    2. Jeff Fenske

      Joshua,
      I’m still planning on writing part 2. I’ve been thinking about it a lot, but I thought I’d share something further here also.
      Hearing God’s Voice: Brief Repeat Phrases summarizes what happens to me often, every day. This is a great way to hear God. The biggest key is probably having only one voice inside of us to hear, having gotten rid of the others. There Should Only Be One Voice
      And we can do this:
      through cold turkey on willful sins that lead to death: “Submit to God; resist the Devil and he will flee.” The prophecy talks about having a clean heart.
      by praying in tongues
      through worship
      through forgiving everyone 100% from our whole heart
      A main point int the Hearing God’s Voice: Brief Repeat Phrases is when we hear something that we know we didn’t make up with our own brain, and we only have one voice to hear, then we know it’s God.
      And when we hear the same thing later in the day, or on another day, then this is confirmed all the more.
      God tells me who to pray for (usually they are cursing me), but He also gives me hope about sometimes these same people. And I’m hearing positive things about what will happen in general also. Like about an hour ago, I heard something like “They will all pray.”
      Try it; you like it. He’s our Father. He wants to lead and encourage us, daily. It doesn’t have to be so hard when we’re clean, not bucking — relaxed.
      And the tough times ahead are going to help as well. But if we wait until then: “Failure to prepare is preparing to fail.”
      We need to be ONE. We need each others gifts. We need to be ready.
      • Oh, and by the way, another safeguard:
      if we’re not sure if what we heard was God’s voice, we can pray in tongues specifically at it. If we get tongues, we’re dealing with it, and it isn’t God.
      Jeff : )

  6. Husband, Father of 5

    Jeff,
    In my search, your voice stands out as a man who doesn’t just have a strong doctrine–you actually claim to hear from God. I’ve tangled myself searching the branches of Christendom to find someone like you who has the Holy Spirit and can call upon God and the Lord answer. It seems that everyone has strong opinions, doctrine or scary statements about the other denominations not being saved due to “obvious” errors. Yet, in my frequently frustrating search and 34 years as a “Christian” (I’m 43 now), I have not received the inner light, and am very fearful that my soul is irrevocably bound for hell.
    Can you ask God for specifics about what He requires of me, and ask the Lord to confirm the vision He provides you with three other people (me, my wife, and a Christian mentor from church Paul K.) I would definately appreciate this, as the Lord seems to be speaking through you.
    Thank you for calling out to God on behalf of me and my family. (I will ask the Lord for this, myself. And I will give thanks for a man like you making a difference in the kingdom.
    Sincerely,
    Joshua

    1. Jeff Fenske

      Joshua,
      Again, thank you for being an example to others. Your situation is probably the within Christendom, what is the exception with you is that you are willing to take the journey towards the Light until you find It.
      You say that you are “very fearful that my soul is irrevocably bound for hell.”
      Probably most pastors in America would quote Romans 8:1a to appease your fears. I will quote Romans 8:1a and 1b to suggest that if you feel condemnation it’s because you really are in this dangerous place of not really being in Christ, biblically.

      1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who don’t walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the law couldn’t do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God did, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh; 4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

      Now if you are right with your neighbors and God, then I would agree with the pastors, but if you aren’t fully enough then it behooves you to get fully right. And when you are fully right you’ll feel fully right — except maybe from others who put stuff on you (the James-3-cursing thing) so you feel badly. I was probably focusing more on that, before. There are those who want those who are pursuing God to feel like the lowest thing in the universe. The hatred in their hearts is so bad, and their control level is so high.
      But this is a different feeling than not being right with God. The condemnation the world (especially those with religious spirits) puts on us, oppression is quite different than guilt in our hearts from not being right with God and our neighbors. Having hurt people and not repented is a big source for many. It takes guts to get right.
      I have gotten prophecies for people on occasion, some very much in depth. But this is a rare thing for me, and I actually prefer it that way. I’d rather help people hear God on their own, for the most part. There are times when I’m writing someone and God gives me specific words. This happens at times in my posts. Usually, I’ll put these words in quotes, but not always. But really, I especially don’t like prophesying to someone I don’t know well, for it’s too often hard to tell if the word was really for them or not.
      And there are some people who are probably called to do this kind of thing often. I don’t think I am. I’m more into looking at the big picture, trying to discern what is the matrix and what is not.
      I stand by everything I’ve suggested up until now, but perhaps this should even more so be your focus, in order to find peace in your heart.
      Why don’t you do the things you know you should be doing? Have you watched this: Asbury Revival, 1970: “Dr. Kinlaw, I am a liar. Now what do I do?”
      This is about getting right and then feeling right, whatever our sins towards others have been. Look at what happened to that woman, how she thought it would kill her to humble herself to that degree. But as she stepped out to do what was right no matter how she felt, the guilt left and the joy came to overflowing!
      In Amish Grace (the movie) they talk about how what we are called to do is not easy. He was talking about forgiving. We will find that place of rest when we are right.
      Almost certainly, the only way you could be “irrevocably bound for hell” is if you keep yourself in darkness by not doing the things necessary to get in the Light. God will give us the grace to overcome, to swim upstream against the current that prevails even in the church, so far — the darkness so deep.
      We need to make sure we’re no longer living in the 1st Galatians-5 list: those who will not inherit eternal life. We need to make sure our names won’t be removed from the Book of Life (Rev. 3:1-6). We need to do whatever it takes so we don’t lust and lose our whole body in hell (Mt. 5).
      And doing what this student did is what many have to do in order to be ‘free,’ which makes it so much easier to not lust, etc..

      Three days later, she came to me radiant, and she said, ‘Dr. Kinlaw, I’m free.’

      I said, ‘what do you mean, ‘you’re free.?’

      She said, ‘I just hit my 34th person and I’m free [Kinlaw raises both hands in the air in the way she probably had]!’

      This is how to go to heaven, whether we need to get right with just one person or hundreds. Or if it’s something else. We need to do whatever we have to to be free!
      Jeff

  7. Husband, Father of 5

    Thanks for the words above. Not meaning to frustrate, but I really would appreciate it if you would pray specifically. In three of my postings above, I’ve asked you to PRAY for me. Jeff, the reason I’ve asked is because you are a man hearing from God; but I can’t know unless I hear from God too. That’s why I’ve asked repeatedly in my postings for your prayers.

    “I ask that you please call out to God on behalf of the Howard family that we may receive clear guidance from the Lord just as you and others receive.” June 5, 2010 @ 8:10 pm
    “I know you are a busy guy, but if you would remember me and my family in your prayers, I would GREATLY appreciate it.” June 13, 2010 @ 12:21 pm
    and the most recent post–
    “Can you ask God for specifics about what He requires of me, and ask the Lord to confirm the vision He provides you with three other people (me, my wife, and a Christian mentor from church Paul K.) I would definately appreciate this, as the Lord seems to be speaking through you.
    Thank you for calling out to God on behalf of me and my family. (I will ask the Lord for this, myself. And I will give thanks for a man like you making a difference in the kingdom.”

    Jeff, will you PRAY for me? If God truly speaks to you, will you please intercede for me. I need a REAL ENCOUNTER with God. I’m reading the volumes of input you provided, but what makes you different from the thousands of other “Christian” websites is your claim to be hearing from God on a somewhat regular basis. PLEASE pray for God to reveal SPECIFICS of what He requires of me, and ask that He confirm this vision with my wife, me, you, and a good Christian friend, Paul K. I will pray also, and will give thanks for you as I indicated in the request above.
    Thanks, greatly. Your intercession might be the key to saving my entire family.
    Sincerely,
    Joshua

    1. Jeff Fenske

      Joshua,
      As you may be able to tell by my hesitation (it has been about a week), I’m not really sure how to respond to your insistence to pray more than I have. I’m really big into dealing with evil spirits through prayer especially in tongues, which is something I do a lot, personally. And clearly someone is doing this for you if you aren’t, yourself (because of the lack of prayer language I get for this — which I discuss above — for those who are just dropping in).
      Perhaps I have a different idea of what should be done through prayer. I don’t believe in forcing people to do things through prayer or trying to force God to do things through prayer.
      When people try to force people, they’re often James-3 cursing, and when people try to force God we have an upside down relationship with God, where we are lord, not Him.
      I believe that God works with us according to His covenant with us. He has certain principles, which is what I’ve been trying to explain. If we’re not finding God it’s not because God doesn’t want to be found. He’s ready and willing. He’s the father in the Prodigal Son who ran to his willfully sinning son!
      God will draw as near to us as we’ll draw near to Him. He’s not a respector of persons. He doesn’t play games like the mythological gods. He will respond to those who sufficiently draw near to Him. He’s promised. 50,000 people praying for that God would draw near to you won’t change that, I don’t believe.
      If you still can’t find God, then draw near to Him more. Ask Him what is getting in the way, what you have to change. It’s our lack of holiness that gets in the way, and probably also our lack of fervency.
      Have you ever seen the movie “Somewhere in Time.” It’s my favorite love-story movie. I also like “The Dove.” But I also like “Somewhere in Time” in how it relates to seeking God through prayer.
      There is a scene in the beginning of “Somewhere in Time” in which Christopher Reeve goes to huge lengths to be able to go back in time to see Jane Seymour. It’s totally fiction, but it’s actually quite amazing. It’s the greatest film example of persistence in prayer that I can think of.
      We need to do whatever we need to in order to find God. And I mentioned some of those things above. He will draw near to us when we truly do draw near to Him. This Old Testament scripture probably applies. Deut. 4:29

      But from there you shall seek Yahweh your God, and you shall find him, when you search after him with all your heart and with all your soul.

      What’s going on in your heart, brother? Westerners aren’t taught much about the heart. I have a lot of posts on this very subject on this site, an entire category on it. The Bible talks about the heart about 1,000 times, but Americans think mostly about their thoughts in their heads.
      We need to have a clean heart. And out of the heart comes…. Many sins originate in the heart, which is more than a pump, having brainlike tissue. Why do people hold their heart when reacting? Why do we say: “I love you from the bottom of my heart.” Can we say this about God? If not, why?
      We’re commanded to love God with all of our heart, which includes the bottom. I absolutely think that when God says ‘heart,’ He means that area.
      Many ‘Christians’ have demons in their hearts. Many curse people from their hearts, which is really what James 3 says, which I show in one of my posts. The tongue is secondary, if it is even used at all. Curses can be silent.
      Unforgiveness is a big reason that ‘Christians’ have demons inside. I have many posts specifically on this subject too. Unforgiveness is huge, and may be your biggest key to breakthrough. God won’t forgive us if we won’t forgive.
      I used won’t instead of don’t because willful unforgiveness is different than passive, unintentional unforgiveness, I believe. I’m personally on a quest to learn how to forgive everyone all of the time, totally, from my heart, no matter what. And I want to start talking about that more openly in my personal blog, hopefully very soon.
      Many ‘Christians’ actually have hate in their hearts, so they can’t be going to heaven Christians according to many passages. This degree of unforgiveness is also rebellion towards God, being unwilling to do what He wants, taking matters into our own hands (though people who do this are probably demon driven, praying “prayers” that demons carry out — James 3).
      This kind of thing will put a wedge between themselves and God. The voices these people hear are probably not very often God’s voice. This is so common.
      We really need to get our hearts clean, which can be part of drawing near to God. We should be able to rest in Him. If we can’t, why can’t we? He wants to lead us, I just shared in my other comment that I made to you a few hours ago: http://onecanhappen.com/2010/05/31/im-upping-the-ante-my-1500-challenge-is-now-a-3000-challenge/#comment-1326.
      So we need to do whatever we need to do in order for Him to be able to draw near to us. I’m big into personal responsibility because I believe God teaches this.
      Does this make sense?
      Jeff : )

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