I was asked this question in this comment:
If a person under the influence of a drug that causes depression or suicidal thoughts commits suicide not knowing that the drug brought about the influence of committing suicide. Would he or she still go to hell? I’m talking about a medicated prescription drug given to a patient from the doctor to help a patient with an illness. But has side effects that caused suicide. Please reply from a biblical perspective.
My response:
First, a DISCLAIMER, I’m not a professional counselor. This is my opinion. I don’t claim to have all the answers, especially in regards to what these drugs do. And I’ve heard it’s really dangerous to go off of psych drugs all at once. I’m NOT recommending that at all. I don’t have a lot of faith in psych doctors, but there are good ones out there whose advice with the drugs should be followed.
I’m sorry for taking so long to respond. I’ve been thinking a lot about what to say. This is so heavy, and it’s hard to answer this briefly and still adequately. I’m sorry for whatever your situation, or your friend’s situation is, if it’s current. I hope for freedom to replace darkness.
If it’s regarding someone who did commit suicide, that’s why I’ve been dragging my feet, and this is what I’ll mainly address, which should cover both possibilities.
What I will say is different than what most pastors currently preach. False, salvation doctrine has been and is the main problem, and because most pastors haven’t taught the truth, most don’t even know they really do have to overcome by Jesus’ grace, which works so powerfully in us if we cooperate.
I’d like to stand up for God. Many are sinning against God, questioning anything in His word they don’t like, and teaching a different gospel, which they’re actually just making up out of wishful thinking, assisted by demons, who jump right in if we open the door through rebellion. And the result is doctrines of demons. I think these people likely have a root of bitterness, like the writer to Hebrews said in chapter 12, which is defiling many. This is a demonic stronghold that will cause them to lose their salvation if they don’t get free.
The problem isn’t Jesus making the way too narrow. The problem is sinful man ignoring for centuries what the Bible clearly says about who goes to heaven. Like Luther, for example, who took one scripture (Rm. 1:17) out of context and made an entire doctrine out of it, ignoring what Paul clearly then stated and concluded with afterwards, which agrees with what Jesus and the other Bible teachers also said. Many then became Lutherans without becoming real Christians, followers of Christ. I was one until I read the New Testament for myself.
Imagine if pastors had been preaching all along the truth about who goes to heaven. Then we would know that we have to overcome sin by Jesus’ grace. Fewer would dare cross the line to step out of safety and into willful sin. And we’d be filled with the Holy Spirit for all the world to see (John 17). We’d be happy. We wouldn’t be depressed. We could pray for one another and be healed, because we confessed our sins to one another according to James 5:14-16:
Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the assembly, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord, and the prayer of faith will heal him who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Confess your offenses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The insistent prayer of a righteous person is powerfully effective.
It’s important to have righteous elders too, which today is hardly at all the case. An overseer “must be blameless,” Paul said.
Again, there is this group of guys and a few ladies who are questioning the word of God, largely based upon their bad experience at a church we all attended. Horrible things happened because the main leader wouldn’t get right with those he hurt, so the Holy Spirit could flew the coop, and hasn’t significantly returned since.
So this anti-church group (on Facebook) is throwing out the baby with the bathwater, thinking that even during the best of times (when we were feeling the Holy Spirit’s anointing) there were significant problems. So they’re concluding that church meetings can never work, because they never fully did before in our church, in reality. Jesus addressed this in Rev. 3:1-5. Sardis had a “reputation of being alive” too, but they were “dead,” Jesus said, because “I have found no works of yours perfected before…God.”
1 “And to the angel of the assembly in Sardis write: He who has the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars says these things: “I know your works, that you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up, and keep the things that remain, which you were about to throw away, for I have found no works of yours perfected before…God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If therefore you won’t watch, I will come as a thief, and you won’t know what hour I will come upon you. 4 Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis that did not defile their garments. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
So the solution to sub-biblical and partially phony churchianity is to keep what was working and correct what was not. Keep the baby and only throw out the bathwater so we can all be clean, abiding in Christ together, where fruit remains and Jesus’ joy in us is the norm.
On this site, I also have Paul’s Ephesians 4:11-16 standard in my header at the top of the page. The 5-fold ministers listed there are supposed to lead us into “perfection,” which Paul then describes. This used to be the standard of our church, and really is supposed to be our actual goal. Instead, most church leaders are completely ignoring God’s goals, and really are just playing church, acting like everything is okay, when it’s clearly not — which is more like Dr. Phil than Jesus or Paul.
But that doesn’t mean we can’t live holy lives while the churches are falling way short. We must. No excuses. And this should compel us to help the church be whole, the way it’s supposed to be: being ‘ONE’ with each other in Christ, “that the world will know (John 17) — having God’s goals set before us. And to not be drunk with wine but be filled with the Holy Spirit, on our own if needs be. Even if it’s a struggle at times, and is a far lesser experience without the body being jointly knitted together under Christ.
It’s also good to know that we’re promised we’ll never be tempted above what we’re able to bear, because the Holy Spirit will always enable us to overcome, even torture:
CORRIE TEN BOOM: PREPARED For The COMING TRIBULATION — “Daddy, I am afraid that I will never be STRONG ENOUGH TO BE A MARTYR for Jesus Christ.” My father said, “OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN KNOWS when you will need the strength…. HE WILL SUPPLY ALL YOU NEED – JUST IN TIME.“
I put a lot of blame on the pastors, and rightly so, but in general, the people have not been responsible to make sure that what they’ve been taught is the truth too. This factor does seem to be in effect:
For the time will come when they will not listen to the sound doctrine, but, having itching ears, will heap up for themselves teachers after their own lusts; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn aside to fables. (2 Tim. 4:3-4)
Yikes! Too many are falling off the wagon of truth into willful disobedience, where there is no peace and fulfilling love.
It seems that not enough people are like the Bereans, whom Paul said were more noble, because they not only eagerly received what Paul said, but they checked in the scriptures daily to make sure what he told them was true.
Relating this to psych drugs and suicide, if the person who committed suicide while on them wasn’t a going-to-heaven Christian before taking the drug, according to what the Bible really says, and then just goes into further sin after taking the antidepressant there really is no hope, I’m sorry to say.
If you’re wondering what is required to be in Christ to go to heaven, please read enough of this article, which I wrote, to get enough of an understanding, starting with my dream, which I share on the first page. I was in danger of going to hell, which prompted this study.
At the very least, to be in the possibility of going to heaven given your stated scenario, the person has to be going to heaven, abiding in Christ before they take the drug. And then if they get self-destructive while taking it, that’s another issue. My article:
Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way | Who are the Children of God? — “There is therefore now *no condemnation* to those who are IN CHRIST Jesus, who don’t WALK according to the flesh, but ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT”
So if a person really was abiding in Christ, overcoming sin to the biblically required degree, and then takes a drug that somehow opens the door to suicidal thoughts to the point they actually do it, is he/she responsible in that drugged condition?
I’ve personally never taken any of these drugs, but have heard that they can actually dull one’s conscience, which would make it easier to sin without feeling guilty. It seems likely that people who take antidepressants may sin more readily in this state. Here are my key articles on this subject:
Skousen: Anti-Depressants Suppress the Conscience Part of the Brain
[FASCINATING audio] Dr. Ann Blake Tracy with John B. Wells on ‘Coast to Coast AM’ 1/19/13: ANTIDEPRESSANTS & VIOLENCE — The “HITLER SYNDROME” (overconfidence in ones own policies or decisions, no fear of consequences, criminal behavior, death of people close to the abuser as the preferred method of solving problems in the abusers life, coldness and lack of humanity). Antidepressants cause distorted thinking, abnormal behavior, and LOSS OF MORALITY to spread like a contagion.
Dr. Scott Johnson: Pharmakeia — Sorcery, Pharmaceuticals & the Roots of Modern Day Drug Industry. “You cannot drug your body into good health.” “Drugs are not going to take the demons away.” “They’ve swept the symptoms under the rug for so long that now they’re a surgical candidate.”
Do anti depressants dull feelings so you are unable to cry anymore or feel much at all? — various opinions …
A warning to all psychiatric drug users — Antipsychotic drugs disturb frontal lobe activity – causing a chemical lobotomy – making emotionally distressed people more submissive and less able to feel!
When we willfully sin and don’t repent, which may mean getting right with those we’ve hurt if we did hurt someone in some way, the guilt would normally remain until we repent. And in this state we’re in trouble with God until we repent. Many take psych drugs, instead, which may help alleviate the feeling of guilt, but the guilt remains. That’s my theory, based upon what I’ve seen so far, which may be true in many cases. But I will present another scenario soon.
Thus, psych drugs are extremely spiritually dangerous. And since it’s probably easier to sin while on meds — and the more one sins the more guilt will accumulate, and the more that demons will have a right to drive sin, because we gave the demons a right. We willfully sinned and let them in.
So not only can guilt accumulate as a result of additional sin while on the drugs, but demons can accumulate.
[DANGER] Apparently, the worst thing is to go off antidepressants cold turkey, all at once, opening the door wide open to all of those real feelings all at once. From what I’ve heard, that’s when many commit suicide.
I’ll share here a story about A WOMAN WHO COMMITTED SUICIDE AFTER TAKING PSYCH DRUGS, AND WHO MAY BE IN HEAVEN. I really don’t know for sure at all. Her husband believes she is in heaven. I hope he’s right, but have no way of knowing for sure.
Her name is Alynn Pike, who was married to Ted Pike. I am a HUGE fan of them both. My heart just breaks, thinking about what happened. And I wish so much that I would have known about them and this sooner, so I could have prayed for those who were James-3 cursing them both, which had a huge effect on Alynn. This is what I believe happened. From my (prophesy) A Gift that Will Set Many Free! (A Death Warrant is Out for Your Souls) — “I’ve given you the gift of tongues from My heart to you”
I want you to be free, free from anxiety. A death warrant is out for your souls. It will get you if you let it. You must pray.
Many die from unknown causes. They are weak from attacks from the Devil who never gives up—curse after curse—toward My people. Many have given in, unable to walk.
The prophesy then goes on to tell how we should pray in tongues for the people cursing us, and forgive them too. God knows what exactly to pray, but we must pray it through in the prayer language God gives us.
I included many linked articles in this post, in case you want further advice on this subject, which is too little known.
Ted said Alynn was speaking in tongues. Apparently, he thought it was from the demons, and maybe it was. But I’m thinking the Holy Spirit was trying to help her pray to be free, and they didn’t realize, because it sounds like they weren’t charismatic.
Ted and Alynn were both fighting the powerful ADL Jewish group, in trying to keep their hate bill from being passed. But they were also both exposing the evils of Talmud-based Judaism, which the Pharisees of Jesus’ day also based their beliefs on, along with the Kabbalah. Jesus said they followed their father, the Devil. But most evangelical pastors today act almost as if the Jews are already going-to-heaven Christians. It’s a lot worse than most realize. Nothing significant has changed since Jesus walked the earth, so when Ted points out the serious problems, not only do many Jews get mad, but many evangelicals get furious too.
And because Alynn spoke on the videos along with Ted, she was right out there in public where many probably tried to curse her to death — no exaggeration. The hate and anger is ferocious!!
I started realizing how James-3 curses worked in the early ’80s, because I got really sick and had to figure out what was going on, or else. I never was suicidal, for the record. Since then, I have prayed in tongues many thousands of hours, and have learned so much, in part from words of knowledge while praying too. God often tells me the names of people to pray for, for example.
Praying in tongues is a greatly underrated gift. Paul, no doubt, was a target of the enemy, and he said he prayed in tongues more than anyone (1 Cor. 14). Jude says:
“But you, beloved, keep building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit. Keep yourselves in the love of God….”
This is Ted’s story of what happened to Alynn. I really feel for him, because they were obviously a match made in heaven, so right for and in love with each other, and effective. So they were a big target.
Ted writes: TED PIKE: MY WIFE DIED A MARTYR FOR GOD AND FREEDOM
And in this video, Ted explains what happened to the best of his awareness. I don’t agree with everything the host says, who is into the new age, but he is wonderful. He really cares and is pretty balanced. This is so heavy.
If anyone doesn’t believe Christians can have demons, I prove they can here: Can a Christian Have a Demon? Absolutely! Most Have Many!
Ted tells their story — very heavy!:
[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I69uow2mmZM]Demonic Attacks Against Ted & Allyn Pike
Alynn was on medication, which Ted talks about; though, maybe not all the time. The demons were the biggest factor, which they weren’t able to overcome with what they knew and did.
It’s so sad.
It does seem obvious that Alynn was dedicated to serving God no matter what before this happened, and even throughout it. They got overwhelmed by the endless attacks, which occurred for six years.
And Ted, instead of pulling out of the public fight, so they could recuperate and regroup, it sounded like he decided to press on no matter what, and Alynn was willing to also. I admire their tenacity, but yeeeeeks! And in some of their later videos, Alynn does appear to not being relaxed and composed like she had been before, showing some strain in her face.
This just really bothers me to see this happen to these two WONDERFUL people.
[Personally — I’m not Ted or Alynn, and wasn’t there, and I’ve never been married — but I can’t see moving forward publicly with my wife going through extreme, daily demonic attacks which she couldn’t get free from. I admire them both greatly, and I really do hope to see them both in heaven, someday, but there is no way to no for sure where Alynn is, from what I can tell. Maybe Ted does know for sure. I hope so, Ted, in case you ever read this. Ughhh! And Ted, thanks for all you’ve done (with Alynn and without) and are doing. I’m learning so much. And I wish I would have learned from you earlier. It was sad that Alex Jones was overly cautious, and didn’t have you on more — giving you more freedom to talk about what really is going on. I’m praying for you now.]
Ted decided to share the full story to help people see the seriousness of the fight we’re in with real, evil forces, among other reasons. And I’m able to share this here, which maybe will help some.
There was no reason why they should have had to fight this on their own. The body of Christ should be united and strong in Christ, filled with His Spirit, so we can overcome no matter what.
I got this prophecy in 2008. We really need to push for ‘ONE’ happening, where we can safely be in Christ, together, so whatever comes at us in the future can be overcome by Jesus’ grace. We need to be holy in Him, and prayed up, united in prayer and dedication to doing the greatest two commandments — none of this pro-war, hate stuff anymore. The Arabs aren’t the enemy. Demons are, though. And Jews aren’t, either; though, I’ve been learning a lot about their Talmud driven, evil ways, lately. It’s shocking what we haven’t been told on purpose. But they’re victims too in this goodfight. And we don’t want to be aiding and abetting evil. And it looks like the USA is being set up to be attacked by Russia and China, perhaps just 5 years away, if China waits until their navy is ready. We need to get this going:
‘Let Us Be ONE’ Prophecy Continues 10/8/08: “It’s TOO LATE to REVERSE what’s been done for MY MEN have been REJECTED … Now is the Time to OVERCOME and GET RIGHT With ALL … FREEeeeeeeeeeeeee———DOM at last … Your HEART will SWELL with LOVE and it will be EASY to REMAIN In Me when others are On The BOAT With You”
We really need to get our act together now, so we have No Condemnation now so No Condemnation when we meet Jesus face to Face — Hearts pure, smiling so big!!! FREEeeeeeeee———–DOM!!!!!!!
This site has many solutions. Reconciliation with others whom we’ve hurt is a major issue we need to overcome. And look at what can happen as a result:
(video) Asbury Revival, 1970: RECONCILIATION the KEY! — “‘Dr. Kinlaw, I am a liar. Now what do I do?’ … Three days later, she came to me radiant, and she said, ‘I just hit my 34th person and I’m free!’”
The Welsh Revival of 1904-05 by J. Edwin Orr: A Countrywide Asbury-like REVIVAL! The 4 Points: #1 Confess any known sin, and put any wrong done to man right again. #2 Put away any doubtful habit. #3 Obey the Spirit promptly. #4 Confess your faith publicly.
Effects of the WELSH REVIVAL 1904-05: Whole communities were radically changed FROM DEPRAVITY TO GLORIOUS GOODNESS. The CRIME RATE dropped, often to nothing. THE POLICE had little more to do than supervise the coming and going of the people to the chapel prayer meetings. THE UNDERGROUND MINES echoed with the sounds of PRAYER and HYMNS, instead of nasty jokes and gossip. People who had fallen out BECAME FRIENDS AGAIN!!!!!!!
(video) The Azusa Street Revival (1906-15): The biggest move of miracles in the history of America — The fire of God’s glory on the roof! “Even the fingernails grew back!” In 1909, Seymour prophesied the next, even greater revival will come in about 100 years! We’re due!!!
The Achan Factor — Because of one man’s disobedience the entire nation of Israel had to deal with the “Achan factor” among them before they could come under the umbrella of Almighty God’s blessings once again! (True for Abbott Loop)
My 1990 Key-to-Revival Prophecy: “There is might and there is power and there is glory, but it is being withheld until these relationships are made right, until we love our brother enough to…” (True for Abbott Loop)
My Dream of ‘ONE’ Happening at Abbott Loop CC!
Awakening Meetings End at IHOP. Why?
Benny Hester: “When God Ran” — God will RUN when we come back to Him!
If we build it He will come:
“Let Us Be ONE” (A Revival Prophecy)
[photo] Abbott Loop Christian Center (Abbott Loop Community Church) — 1985
Let’s begin again, and do it right! Paul overcame, and so must we; otherwise, we’re in the dangerous zone, which we should do everything we have to in order to stay clear of.
Can ‘Christians’ use Paul’s “Forgetting the things which are behind…I press on” statement as an excuse to not get right with those they’ve hurt? Paul also said: “I also practice ALWAYS having a conscience void of offense toward God and men.” What if you don’t repent? And what will happen when you do? The Third Great Awakening can start with us!!! We can all be happy — ‘ONE’!
God bless a lot!!!!!!!
Jeff
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